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View Full Version : Front Mounted intercoolers HKS!



NITO
15th August 2000, 11:23
Does anyone on here have any experience with an HKS front mounted intercooler before I go and blow a whole load of money on one? I have heard conflicting reports.

Essentially many people say that the long amount of piping (over 4ft apparently)will increase lag due to pressure drop but will be awesome at the top end. Personally I don't want an unresponsive car! The HKS dealers I have spoken to have nothing but praise for the kits and say that the benefits of the extra cooling far outweigh any losses.

I have been told that the extra lag would be barely perceivable on the road. One particular dealer offered me my money back if I wasn't happy with it after fitting it!

With regards to pressure drop, I am thinking of fitting a larger hybrid turbo from Turbo dynamics based on the VF23. If I am using a larger turbo, and an HKS electronic boost controller which I already use, then won't the EBC self compensate for any pressure drop by ensuring that pressure at the manifold remains a constant 1.2bar?? Also will pressure drop be as apparent with a larger turbo. Or will a larger turbo combined with a FMIC emphasise lag below 3500rpm? I was also told that extra lag was minimal with a hybrid turbo?

TIA for any help,

Nito

MorayMackenzie
15th August 2000, 13:18
The Turbo Dynamics MD 193 hybrid seems to make little difference to lag over the vf23... if anything, I seem to remember lag dropping a bit on standard jecs management.

Moray

NITO
15th August 2000, 15:45
Thanks Moray,

It's on your recommendation that I'm strongly considering the MD193, I'm sure I won't be dissapointed :)

Just out of interest, what boost are you running??

Thanks
Nito

quattro
15th August 2000, 17:00
Am I wrong or is NITO something related to a new "business" called NITO SPORT (or NITOSPORT). I have seen a web site with that name and a some people say the person behind this is someone called Marino who frequently posts and discusses a number of more or less technical issues in Iwoc (email address starting with "ninosco" or something else).

No malice intended, just curiosity which, I am sure, members will be able to shed some light on.

many thanks
q.


[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 15 August 2000).]

NITO
15th August 2000, 17:59
Quattro...or is that Yosser??? :) I may be mistaken here!!

Anyway, I'm intrigued as to how you found all this out as I've only told a select few about this. Still, news travels fast, yes you are correct. The website is very incomplete which is why I haven't advertised it yet.

Basically I'm offering carbon fibre type interiors for all Impreza models. That is the original panels completely reworked in carbon fibre effect. It looks ten times better than the original STi carbon effect cappings and the quality is second to none!

I have all the panels in stock, so they are sold on an exchange basis. I have all the parts from 93-00 models except the stereo surround console for 98> Sti's which I will have by the mid/end of september which is when I was planning to go live.

I have had these parts on my car for over a year now so the quality is well proven. The parts in carbon fibre effect include the central heater vents, the side vents, the small upper vents, the radio console, the gearlever surround, handbrake surround, steering shroud, instrument cluster surround and all door window switch panels and door handle surrounds.

Other products I will have then include stunning polished gearlever surrounds with genuine leather gaitors, some gorgeous gearknobs, Kickplates and carbon effect gauge pods with Blitz gauges ready to go and pre wired to make it as easy a diy fit as possible.

Here's a taster

http://nitosport.co.uk/tripod1.jpg

Nito

ptholt
15th August 2000, 20:32
oooo carbon fibre.......... must fill car with carbon fibre................. must make car look like carbon covered ducati in garage........must have............

gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme.

you get the idea.

Mail me some prices and ordering details please nito !

Ian Cook
15th August 2000, 20:36
Mildly surprised as to why Quattro thought it necessary to mention this, Nito wasnt advertising anything and was only asking questions about a product he isnt selling but looking at buying !

NITO
15th August 2000, 21:51
Ian, I assure you it's not a conspiracy or an advertising ploy.

Thanks for the interest PT, I'll mail you direct regarding details.

Nito


[This message has been edited by NITO (edited 15 August 2000).]

quattro
15th August 2000, 23:57
People who sell should make it clear they are commercially involved and not "ask questions" about products they openly promote and offer to sell to the public (not a bad piece of PR at all, must say - no need to thank me for the opportunity). If they do not know about products they are advertising, how can they be in a position to sell them to anyone with knowledge and understanding? (Have a look at www.nitosport.com (http://www.nitosport.com) for yourselves). Dear Mr. Cook, as simple as that. If you are mildly surprised why I asked I am somewhat less mildly surprised you were surprised!

Nice to see Mr. Nito using the "technical" bbs to tell us all about the products he is intending to sell and even include the picture. Yet another example how some serious change of policies should be implemented on this board.

Personally, I wish Nitosport all the best. The more "suppliers" there are, the easier it will be for the best ones to continue. For as long all the members know what is what and who is who. Even if they could not care less!

q.

PS. Who is Yosser, btw?

[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 16 August 2000).]

NITO
16th August 2000, 08:06
Quattro,

<<People who sell should make it clear they are commercially involved and not "ask questions" about products they openly promote and offer to sell to the public>>

Intercoolers are not a product which I openly promote and sell to the public. In fact I don't sell them at all and I have not openly promoted anything until you brought this up.

<<If they do not know about products they are advertising, how can they be in a position to sell them to anyone with knowledge and understanding?>>

I do know about the products I am advertising and will always try something on my own car for a good amount of time before recommending it to someone else.

<<The more "suppliers" there are, the easier it will be for the best ones to continue>>

I'm sorry you feel like that Quattro. I would have thought most people would be happy to see new products on the market which were previously unavailable. As for any HKS/Blitz products, they are merely complimentary to any other products I sell particularly as there is no-one else in the South East Kent area selling these.I am not trying to flood the market as an alternative competitor, as I'm selling stuff no-one else sells.

<<Nice to see Mr. Nito using the "technical" bbs to tell us all about the products he is intending to sell>>

If I were "using" this BBS to tell you about the products I sell, I would certainly not have advertised them in the Engine section! I'm not using the BBS "Technical" Bulletin in any way whatsoever.

If you were just curious about my venture why didn't you e-mail me direct?

I can't help but detect hostility in both of your messages and to be honest I don't know what made you bring it up in the first place.

If you're annoyed that I'm trying to glean information from this site to put them into commercial use then don't be as I am not doing anything of the sort. The modifications I am referring to on this thread are far more in depth than I would want to get involved in comercially and are for personal purposes only, as first and foremost, like you, I am an enthusiast.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Nito

Matt Porritt
16th August 2000, 09:58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NITO:
I can't help but detect hostility in both of your messages and to be honest I don't know what made you bring it up in the first place.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey forget it..
Just remember when you have a sharp price on something he wants, that you may have to add a 'Wanker' Tax to it! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


(just a wee bit of humour lads.. No offence! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif )

quattro
16th August 2000, 10:31
Nito,

I am not annoyed with anything at all. I welcome any new enterprise, but as I have always done so, I advocate clear distinction between business and enthusiasm. Nothing more and nothing less. If you detected any hostility in my posts, I am at serious loss as I cannot see any nor was any implemented in my words.

Your type of reaction has been seen far too many times and there will always be people who will understand the points made and those who will refuse or be unable to do so. You have written quite a lot and most of it was "explaining", but if you felt this was the thing to do, I have no problems with that either.
Good luck with your business and I hope it brings you a lot of fun and commercial benefit. This brief exchange of "views" will only be a good promotion for your forthcoming activites which cannot do any harm.

I shall not even bother to address the utterly uncivilised and rude comments by the latest "creative contributor" from somewhere in this world since they are far too typical for those of the kind (even when thy call it humour!?)

q.

[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 16 August 2000).]

Scooby Mania
16th August 2000, 12:24
Now there will be many who can confirm that I'm always up for a laugh........ http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

However, I see absolutely nothing funny in your above comment at all Matt?

In fact I think implying a particular person is a Wanker, then saying 'no offence' is utterly appalling. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/mad.gif

I suggest you re-read it and edit that comment.

Good luck Nito, let me know if I can help in any way?

Mike.

[This message has been edited by Scooby Mania (edited 16 August 2000).]

pat
16th August 2000, 12:51
Goddammit, this is supposed to be a technical BBS not a "slag someone off" forum! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif But seriously, we don't seem to be any closer to a real answer than we were at the start. Hmmmm....

I do not have an HKS front mount Intercooler, so I cannot share any experience of this product, just some thoughts about it; I think that Firefox has been / is messing around with a nice large frontmount intercooler, so it might be worth asking J for some real life feedback....

There is no question whatsoever that it will be more efficient than anything you could fit under the bonnet scoop, it's just a bit of a pain trying to fit. There will be extra volume in the pipework, and there will be extra volume in the intercooler. But considering that at full chat the turbo is already shifting over 100 litres per second, the extra volume does seem quite small :)

Pressure build-up will be slower initially, of course, but whether this would be noticeable to the extent that it becomes an annoyance is unlikely; in any event if using a programmable ECU it may be possible to adjust the map to compensate.

It is also possible that there may be less lag between gears, simply because there is a large pressurised volume which will take longer to lose its pressure (given the same size of dump valve), so when re-applying the loud pedal, the pre-butterfly gas may be more pressurised than it would be with a topmount intercooler. The ultimate would be frontmount with antilag, but I feel sorry for the turbo :)

Cheers,

Pat.

MorayMackenzie
16th August 2000, 13:21
Pat,

I take it from your last comment that you are being devious and covertly marketing a retro fit AntiLag system for scoobies with front mount intercoolers... stop it at once! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

The main things that stop me going front mount is that it requires serious non-reversible changes to the cars bodywork in many kits... and it reduced access to the engine, which isn't easy to start with.

The APS system looks as though it may be one of the least "invasive" to install, and I like the idea of using silicone hose rather than metal pipe to reduce heat soak problems.

Moray

NITO
16th August 2000, 13:53
lol@Moray...BTW What's the APS system??

Firefox
16th August 2000, 13:58
There has been many discussions of the heat latency/transfer rates between silicon and metal...

The set I know run..admittedly modified from original..doesnt need any metal cutting.. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

But does reduce the non-existant engine bay space to erm.. a negative value.. Aka.. The Tardis! lol

J.

ps - Do the job right from the start.. think what you want...dont just buy an off the shelf kit and then think doh.. I could have moved that.. changed this... etc.... Making a kit is quite simple... whats the point in spending money if u will ditch half of it later to reverse the manifold... or twist and clock the turbo...etc...

pss - Anyone what a kit making ? reversed anifold, etc.. ? http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 16 August 2000).]

NITO
16th August 2000, 13:59
Pat...thanks for that, it's just the sort of info I was looking for.

Mike, thanks for the kind words.

J, I take it the metal pipes are ok then and the intercooler gets a thumbs up??

Nito

[This message has been edited by NITO (edited 16 August 2000).]

pat
16th August 2000, 14:27
Moray,

I don't sell anything commercially... OK I am selling some Link stuff but it's because I don't need it since it won't work with my Phase II engine....

But the point was that the only real "drawback" of a front-mount intercooler is that it may add lag (OK body mods accepted) and this could be circumvented with antilag http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

Cheers,

Pat.