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View Full Version : Keeping the S2000 - going Supercharged :-)



Dark Blue Mark
26th August 2005, 23:31
Just an update, as I did think I was going to chop the car in for another scoob or similar.

Totally love it and cant fault it, but I love modding and its a waste of time sticking N/A on these cars. You can spend thousands and only get a handful of BHP.

So, when a guy off the BBS offered me the chance to buy his Vortech setup with 500 miles on it - I jumped at it :D

This allows me to have 300 rwhp at 8 psi boost :D :D and as they are linear in power delivery, it does keep a fair bit of the VTEC character. It may get interesting in the wet though.

To give you an idea of the pace it will add, found a clip of one with a scock 8 psi Vortech giving an 05 Carrera S some grief :D
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=B188DDE1-5801-4B59-83FB-CD1315CC48F6&kw=3&p=2

Very excited! Keeping the car looking really stock so I can go punishing people with more added fun.

http://www.sidtech.co.uk/iu/ScoobyMark5035303068.JPG

http://www.sidtech.co.uk/iu/ScoobyMark794847648514.JPG


Wish me luck!

MB

Bob D
27th August 2005, 02:29
Blimey. Not many of those about.

Keep us posted.

The handling is tricky enough in the wet as standard.


Bob

jim.....
27th August 2005, 07:50
Nice to see a full kit with charge cooler. Not many seem to have a cooler, lad next door looked at a turbo kit for his Integra, when I asked what the IC looked like he showed me the kit info not one in it :eek: the company said it didn't need one on low boost!!!

Robertio
27th August 2005, 08:05
Sounds like fun Mark smile.gif would like to see the car when it is done.

When I was running 300rwhp on the RX (on twin turbos, so >200lb/ft from 2.5k to 8k rpm)it was interesting in the wet - would spin the rear wheels from 30-100mph if trying to accelerate through 2nd & 3rd. After it was switched over to non sequential on uprated turbos the power delivery became similar to what I expect your S2000 to be, and it helped no end with traction. Doing the same 2nd&3rd gear pull with 360rwhp the back end only let go at 105mph. Having said that I did run it at Crail in torrential rain and the rear tyres were still lit up crossing the line with 120 on the speedo redface.gif so best to avoid standing starts in the wet.

drb5=Dave McD
27th August 2005, 08:43
Look at the size of that toorbo! :eek: :cool:

pat
27th August 2005, 09:19
What turbo ? It looks like a centrifugal supercharger to me..... belt driven with a ZF drive to make the whistly bit go round quickly :D

Dark Blue Mark
27th August 2005, 09:24
Yep, its a centrif charger :D

Bob, yep handling is interesting in the wet but I think most of the horror stories are driver ability related! I was a bit worried going from AWD to RWD but its fine as long as you remember what you're driving. Ive come up to bends far too fast still thinking im in the scoob, and come out ok though. Dry handling is so much fun. Doesnt seem to "jump" and hit the floor like a scoob though :confused: smile.gif

Robertio, will keep you posted ;) RX7 sounds bloody fun!

PS - guy selling it said it was SCARY fast - just what I need. Going for the usual AFR an KL install too - makes me feel at home smile.gif

MB

Dark Blue Mark
27th August 2005, 09:30
Jim, I guess S/C has less temp issues but I still would rather see a cooler on there. Turbo's on these cars can see as high as 700wrhp and not my cup of tea at all - its major work.

The beauty of the Vortech is that its designed for stock aplication, and as such you keep standard injectors, albeit at a higher D/C. You get a Walbro 225 pump and reg, and also a fuel management box to adjust the fuelling to suit the kit. Also designed for crap US 91 Ron fuel so Optimx will keep it nice and safe smile.gif

MB

stevieturbo
27th August 2005, 10:15
I'd say US 91 PON octane is pretty close to our 97 RON ayway

A friends Viper was tuned on US 93 octane, when it arrived home, on Optmax it was detonating, and had to have timing pulled from it.

jameswrx
27th August 2005, 10:46
Looks interesting :D

Big power rwd is so tricky after owning lots of 4wd stuff. My rx7 was a handful in the wet (2nd turbo incomming!), used it in the snow too... once.

Floyd
27th August 2005, 11:15
Looks like a very nice factory type install. The vid is filmed by a WRX, which seems to be faster than the filmed cars!

Have fun :D
F

Dark Blue Mark
27th August 2005, 12:28
Was filmed in Dubai. WRX did look to be giving them both some jip!

MB

Robertio
29th August 2005, 21:12
Robertio, will keep you posted ;) RX7 sounds bloody fun!
It would be if it wasn't so frail - spec'd it up for TOTB 2004, went bang when out mapping it (on low boost of all things). Back together for this years event only to lose engine,gearbox & turbos before it. Should have realised when the first engine let go on my way home from buying the car (2002) that it wasn't going to be a reliable form of transport. Should have taken out a large loan and bought a GT3 in the first place, would have cost me less in the long run.

Already decided it wont be at TOTB next year - even if it is running 450-500rwhp that's not enough to be competitive anymore. Out of the last 33 months it has been on the road for 7 and running right for 1 of them :D and during that time it managed to earn me 5points :rolleyes:

Honda have gained a few S2000 sales from prospective RX-7 purchasers as I normally point them in that direction. A fun car is only a fun car if it is running.

Adamantium
30th August 2005, 11:04
why is the original owner selling?

what is the rrp on that kit?

and you should look at water injection pre supercharger.

it can do wonders for the timing allowed, and the honda standard ecu will advance very efficiently if it can.

Rich B
31st August 2005, 20:47
good choice markie, get it fitted and get yer arse round here pronto! :D

Dark Blue Mark
1st September 2005, 12:28
Hi Rich, must pop round soon! Dont get it for a couple of weeks and will take me another month or so to getting round to fitting. Its good as you can do all of it but putting the pulley on and ECU box as the final bit.

Adam, the guy bought a newish NSX so decided to take it off. Hes an S2k memeber so hopefully trustworthy... getting a go in the NSX tho :D

RRP is about $5000 usd - not saying what bargain price I got it for though ;) Sticking with the standard kit.

MB

Dark Blue Mark
13th October 2005, 21:14
Update can be found here:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=325803&st=0

basically ive fitted the PLX wideband and the cooling system. Next its the fuel pump / pulley / oil pan mod. After that I can get the beastie on and fit the timing unit and MAP clamp! Exciting.

On a UK car it will actually give 350bhp and reach 100 in just under 10 seconds - allegedly...

MB

Floyd
14th October 2005, 06:48
Hmmm, I'd like to see that too :D

F

Dark Blue Mark
14th October 2005, 10:09
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=E794DF60-DE2A-4858-BCF2-2E74EAEB01F6&term=s2000&p=2

Stock-ish S2000 against EVO8 with dp... Imagine what another 100 bhp would do :D


MB

Bob D
14th October 2005, 10:44
Looking good Mark.


Bob


PS. You're mad! ;)

Robertio
14th October 2005, 17:56
Any chance of posting up the stock AFR's when you get round to measuring them? I've always been surprised at how bad Honda NA engines seem to be on fuel, so guess they run them quite rich.

If you plan on controlling the fueling by fuel pressure alone I can only wish you the best of luck. Had loads of fun trying to sort out a mates SC MX-5 by this method - if we got it lean enough low down to spool up the charger fairly quickly it soon ran out of fuel further up. Even running the FPR maxed out (so it was drowing low down) it would go lean on sustained spells of WOT, very strange. Thankfully it was suitably rich with nitrous on, so not the huge problem it could have been. I've suggested he should get an aftermarket ECU (even just an e-manage) more than once or twice, but he's yet to see the light.

Dark Blue Mark
15th October 2005, 09:20
Will do mate, just got to actually put the lambda in this weekend, the PLX is all wired up though.

Ive seen many AFR charts of people using the Vortech fuelling unit, and it appears to be a very good bit of kit. Granted, not as good as an aftermarket ECU. It changes the fuelling and timing, and has MAP and all sorts of other inputs.

MB

Dark Blue Mark
15th October 2005, 09:21
Cheers Bob ;) Not the first to call me that :D

MB

Dark Blue Mark
27th October 2005, 19:58
Robertio,

AFR's as promised:

Im getting 14-15 AFR at idle / faster up and down at fast idle
Im getting 13 at WOT, and then 19 when lifting off the throttle (overrun)

At 8900 rpm, I get a little dip to 11 - that may be the uprated fuel pump though.

Knock volts at max are 2.2 rising with revs but 2 is a normal high peak.

MB

drb5=Dave McD
27th October 2005, 20:04
Not very rich there! :eek:

Dark Blue Mark
27th October 2005, 20:26
No, but they're all like that smile.gif Scoobs do run rich comparitavely though.

Knock is quite low which is the main thing.

Should be a little richer with the big snail on there :D

MB

Dark Blue Mark
12th November 2005, 22:43
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=325803&st=200

Got the blower on!

Some way to go yet though,,,

MB

stevieturbo
13th November 2005, 12:30
If you arent keen on drilling the sump for an oil return. A couple of the Corvette blower companys have modified their dipstick tubes to accept an oil return.

They had previously used Prochargers, that had a self contained oil supply. But after a very very bad marketing decision by ATI the 2 companys, switched to Paxton and Vortech, that require an engine oil supply.

I drilled my sump, although it was off the car at the time. I'd try and avoid it if I could again though. I do have a bit of a leak there.

Dark Blue Mark
14th November 2005, 23:04
Dipstick would be interesting but clearance might be an issue. I have a spare sump with the fitting pre drilled and sealed in place - I will use Loctite on the threads.

What S/C did you have and what car?

Your earlier point on US fuel is valid, theirs is of better quality than ours. The Vortech box does adjust timing to suit though, so we will see how it works. :D

MB

stevieturbo
15th November 2005, 01:17
I have a 1980 Ford Granada with a 5.7 LS1 running a Vortech V7 YSi blower.

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000074;p=1

David_Wallis
15th November 2005, 09:09
mark.. I wouldnt drive the car with no oil feed to the supercharger.. the air passing through it.. may move the wheel?? (If it was a turbo it would, so guessing SC might)

stevieturbo
15th November 2005, 17:27
If the belt isnt attached, I wouldnt worry too much. The wheel doesnt turn that easily.

Dark Blue Mark
15th November 2005, 20:07
Cheers both, it doesnt turn so its ok.

I do have a problem though :( See the bottom of page 9. I moved the car with the oil feed hooked up, but the outlet blanked off. Belt was off, bu the pressure would have hit the end of the outlet and backed up. I had oil leaking out the blower casing from a cap head bolt. (dont think its come out the air outlet)

I dont know the internal sealing arrangement but I hope I haven;t blown the seal.

Will just have to complete the oil system and see if it leaks :(

The return goes back to the sump with zero pressure.

MB

stevieturbo
15th November 2005, 21:59
mmm that wasnt a good idea. I have never split my casing,, but it doesnt look like there are any special seals used.
Obviously you have realised not to feed it with oil unless there is a drain.

stevieturbo
15th November 2005, 23:55
And you could maybe ask here for help regarding the oil problem lol
They would know a lot more about specific blowers. I'm sure someone has dismantled one.

http://www.superchargerhelp.com/index.php?

Dark Blue Mark
16th November 2005, 09:23
Cheers,

The casing is fine, it was coming from behind a bolt. Apparently it will be ok once its all hooked up. We shall see!

Will look on that forum too, but its just an O ring seal. Vortech tried to stitch me up and said it needed a $500 overhaul :rolleyes:

I deal with mechanical seals all day, when I explained that the backed off a bit!

MB

Robertio
18th November 2005, 23:35
Originally posted by Dark Blue Mark:
Robertio,

AFR's as promised:

Im getting 14-15 AFR at idle / faster up and down at fast idle
Im getting 13 at WOT, and then 19 when lifting off the throttle (overrun)

At 8900 rpm, I get a little dip to 11 - that may be the uprated fuel pump though.

Knock volts at max are 2.2 rising with revs but 2 is a normal high peak.

MB Thanks for that Mark, I hadn't realised the thread had been moved to Other Marques redface.gif

And to think my car runs as lean as 10.6-11:1 with the water injection on :D Just as well fuel is cheap ;)

Am now even more confused though as the S2k engine returns worse fuel consumption figures than a 2.7 Boxster. I had assumed it was because Honda stuffed loads of fuel in, but it would appear not.
Any ideas how they have made a 2l thirsty under cruise with what looks like a normal NA AFR? My old 2l GTi-6 was around 14:1 whether on cruise or WOT (just richened up over the last 400rpm)and always returned around 35mpg with it's quaint French ECU. Can't understand how they've made the S2k worse on fuel when cruising.

Dark Blue Mark
19th November 2005, 08:28
Interestingly ive been taking it reallllly easy this week, not one bit of VTEC as im pulling air through the non spinning blower.

I normally drive it hard and get 260 miles from a 40 fill up (max)

I am heading for a shade over 300 so the MPG is around 33/34 which is pretty good. My Integra was as bad as my STi though!

MB

stevieturbo
19th November 2005, 12:49
Originally posted by Robertio:


And to think my car runs as lean as 10.6-11:1 with the water injection on :D Just as well fuel is cheap ;)
10.6 - 11.1 is NOT lean on any car running petrol as fuel. Its pretty rich.

Numerically higher like 13:1 would be lean

Robertio
19th November 2005, 19:38
I know (as I map cars) I used 'as lean as' because when the gas was on it ran around 9:1 (or it did until a small fuel supply issue leaned things out and restyled the engine).

Alas rotary engines require a lot more fuel than boingers so < 11:1 is a requirement under more than 0.9bar boost. It's especially depressing going back to a rotary and having to dump stacks fuel in after setting up a piston engine.

Mark, how did you manage to get an ITR to return the same figures as an Sti? I average 17mpg on my old UK scoob, even my carb'd westie was economical in comparison :D

Sorry for wandering off topic redface.gif

FWIW I should be collecting my car the week before Christmas (it's returning rubbish figures on the dyno at the moment - they are trying to work out why it is dropping huge amounts of boost across the intercooler). Once I've got an actual date (for when I'll be down) I'll drop you a PM/e-mail smile.gif

Dark Blue Mark
9th December 2005, 17:05
Not sure on the ITR, but it wasn't that economical. I think it didnt hekp going from the STi torque monster to the ITR, basically I think I drover it like I stole it ALL the time. And I mean that :D My STi used to give 270 miles to a tank of 40 though!

Blower is all on now after some hiccups with the oil system!

http://www.sidtech.co.uk/iu/ScoobyMark3036124561.JPG
http://www.sidtech.co.uk/iu/ScoobyMark2880803536.JPG

Have a read!
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=325803&st=200

MB

Floyd
18th December 2005, 20:18
So when you going to start it? Did you give up?

F

Dark Blue Mark
18th December 2005, 21:35
Ive got a bit pissed off with it atm Floyd (have zero patience!) The whole thing needs to be removed to sort a loose bolt, which is my fault :(

Not sure whether to carry on or not as yet... I know it looks all done, but the fuel press reg and ECU box are quite tricky.

We shall see!

MB

drb5=Dave McD
18th December 2005, 21:55
Keep at it mate. It'll only piss you off later, if you gave up on it. smile.gif

Looks great.....and pretty damn big too! :eek: