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colin c
8th March 2004, 10:34
I'm looking at buying a set of Gruppe-s headers with a Helix uppipe.

I see they now offer a "jet hot coating" service for the headers which costs approx 81 extra instead of wrapping the headers. As 2 rolls of good quality wrap with a coating spray and clips would nearly cost 80, which is the best option to go for. I know coating has the disadvanage of it might get damaged, scratched etc.

Cheers Colin.

Adamantium
8th March 2004, 11:17
both!

colin c
8th March 2004, 11:56
Adam in another thread Harvey did not recommend both on a road car :confused:

Colin.

MorayMackenzie
8th March 2004, 12:02
This could get interesting. smile.gif

colin c
8th March 2004, 12:15
Before any toys are thrown out of any prams ;) I have had an email from Pavlo and I'm going to try the headers with the coating. If the under bonnet temps are too high then I will wrap them, after all it's only 6 bolts to remove the headers.

What UK time is the best to phone Gruppe-s ?

Adamantium
8th March 2004, 12:36
why would any toys be thrown out of the pram?

would be interested to hear any conclusions harvey has come to and why.

as far as I am concerned it is advantageous to prevent heat from escaping from the gases prior to their exit from the back of the exhaust pipe.

With this in mind anyt hing which provides a barrier to the outside world prior to the back box would be an advantage.

If it was one or the other, i would go with lagging, and spraying.

nom
8th March 2004, 12:38
I thought that the problem with wrapping coated headers was that it could corrode the metal, or otherwise do bad things?
And I think that this info - or at least to me - was from Branko (who is very keen on ceramic coating!), not Harvey smile.gif

Paul@Zen
8th March 2004, 13:07
lagging and spraying might be a bad idea. Harvey's experience of this was that soo much heat was put into the headers that they got too hot and started to degrade.

Paul

Steven
8th March 2004, 13:35
ring gruppe s about 6pm

colin c
8th March 2004, 18:09
Phoned Gruppe-s tonight about 6.20 and they were just opening for the day. The guy I spoke to was very helpfull and efficient, only trouble is I have to wait for a couple of weeks for the Jet Hot Coating version :( Good news though it's only an extra 51 for the coating.

Cord
8th March 2004, 19:02
My headers will be left un wrapped/coated and just select bits of the original heat sheild re-used. I have heat sheilded next to oil filter/sump and also outside end of collector bends to protect wiring loom. I know that keeping all available heat in the gasses helps spin the turbo, but in my experience losing some of the heat makes life a great deal easier on the turbo (and therefore slightly cooler turbo means slightly cooler charge temp) and also less degrading of the stainless header tubing which doesn't like 950C. I know this goes against accept wisdom, but it is just from my own experience of turbo engines.

Paul@Zen
8th March 2004, 19:54
cooler EGT means higher exhaust turbine flow

harvey
9th March 2004, 20:47
The first set of Ion headers I had came ceramic coated and I then wrapped them. After a few months when I ran into problems with a leak between the headers and up pipe I found there was also a crack at the collector, the exhaust wrap was so brittle it just dropped off when I touched it and to my dismay the ceramic coating was also flaking off. This was because with both the ceramic coating and the exhaust wrap the headers were getting to too high a temperature. These headers were repaired, wrapped and now live on Jonny Gavs car.
Lots of stuff I have had from Ion is ceramic coated because it costs a lot less to get it done over there but there is a time delay. I have also had ceramic coating done by Camcoat at Warrington but I feel the UK price is a bit prohibitive. I also think ceramic coating has the edge on wrapping and the exhaust parts I have had ceramic coated but not wrapped have stood up well. Far better than exhaust wrap.
I have noticed that all the Prodrive stuff on the WRC cars is ceramic coated and then wrapped but these guys have a maga budget and can throw things away after a rally or two. Another observation is that the ceramic coating from Canada, the US or Camcoat is a dark grey colour but the coating Prodrive use, I think from a company near Banbury is white/cream.

There is no doubt that ceramic coating plays a big part in keeping under bonnet temperatures down.

Anybody buying Gruppe S header and up pipe should enquire if it is possible to have it ceramic coated prior to despatch.

David_Wallis
9th March 2004, 21:33
I belive prodrive only wrap the top part of the downpipe so they can hold it easier whilst removing it.

harvey
10th March 2004, 20:40
The whole header is wrapped on the car I have seen.

colin c
31st March 2004, 18:46
My Gruppe-s headers turned up today. The hot gell coating looks very good and I'm also impressed with the Helix up-pipe.

Hopefully I will be fitting these next weekend.

Colin.

colin c
15th April 2004, 22:01
Today was the first time I used my Scooby with the Gruppe-s headers fitted. I'm very impressed with them so far, they still retain some of the burble, the fitment was excellent and there appears to be no leaks from the up-pipe gasket at the moment.

Approx 10 mins after a reasonable good thrash I put my scooby up on a ramp. I could hardly touch my HKS center section ( I have fully wrapped my downpipe to the join ) due to how hot it was, but the headers were virtually cold, I was able to touch them for quite along time before my fingers got hot. The Jet Hot Hoating appears to work :D

Not so impressed with my H&S downpipe, aswell as the welds not being ground down inside the pipe, when I went to fit it the gearbox mounting bracket it was about an inch away from the hole in the downpipe, I have now soughted this but the downpipe gets so close to the gearbox carrier in a couple of places it has already warn the heat wrap off. For 260 I am not impressed, my old HKS downpipe that cost me 80 was far better quality and fitment. I should of taken Harvey's advise and bought a RCM downpipe.

I'm also impressed with my new TD05 / 06 20 g supplied by Andy F. It hasn't got the kick in the back feeling that my old Apexi unit had at 4000 rpm, but the boost appears to come in a lot smoother and more controlled and holds 1.4 bar to the redline. Desperately needs mapping though to stop det :(

I will keep you posted on how the Jet Hot Coating performs after further testing.

Colin.

Simon_
16th April 2004, 08:04
Sounds impressive.. if I ever change my headers might consider the coating..

Hope it continues to perform..

... and get the car remapped!!

Simon smile.gif

David_Wallis
16th April 2004, 10:39
Take it easy until its mapped!