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Adam M
19th June 2003, 09:10
Where can I get one of these that will take some serious heat and flow?

The one that comes with the hks headers is a composite type and isn't going to cut it.

I am not aware of where I can get such things separately.

Does it matter if you cut out the inner diameter as I presume they come in standard size?

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 10:02
I believe the one to go for is originally fitted to a Ford Transit. It's a laminated steel sandwich and should cope with plenty heat/pressure (hopefully you won't have toooo much pressure in the headers http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif)

Adam M
19th June 2003, 10:32
where would I get such a thing from and does it need to be persuaded to fit?

David_Wallis
19th June 2003, 10:39
Ford.. and im sure you said you werent bothered about pursuading it..

or a partco.. andrew page.. motosave etc..

David

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 10:55
I'm not sure the part No, I'd wander into your local exhaust 'qwik flit' holding your HKS one in your hand ! (Probably get it FOC if you tell them how famous you are http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif)

Pblamire
19th June 2003, 11:08
how about the subaru backbox gasket?

isn't this triple steel? right size possibly?

paul

pat
19th June 2003, 11:24
The back box one is composite, but it is the right size... the standard Subaru up pipe gasket is too small for Adam's pipework....

Cheers,

Pat.

Adam M
19th June 2003, 11:43
Andy, I tried the kwik fit one and when I said,

"you know, Adam M?" they simply said "Andy F, yeah heard of him!" then they doubled the price.

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 12:03
Maybe that was because they assumed it would be holding twice the power http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/tongue.gif

David_Wallis
19th June 2003, 12:22
Maybe you need to wear a kilt and flash your knob at them http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

MorayMackenzie
19th June 2003, 12:29
It was probably going fine at Kwik-Fit right up to the point where Adam said "it's not actually for a transit, it's for my highly tuned limited edition one of a kind subaru impreza 22b", and then things went downhill. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

David_Wallis
19th June 2003, 12:31
other one he had rotted through whilst the car stood for so long http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam... The only person to have a stainless exhaust rot through on them http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam M
19th June 2003, 13:06
Yeah they offered me a new exhaust too.

£200 to normal people and £400 to me (Andy F still)

I tried to argue on price but apparently it was the fault of their new AP22 till, it consistently over charges people. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 13:19
Notice how all the chirpy ones are those NOT attending TOTB with their 2.5 cars http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Adam M
19th June 2003, 13:26
Someone makes a jokey comment and Andy retaliates by hitting below the belt. (do they have a smilie for "tsk"? http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif)

I guess if I had any balls where TOTB was concerned I would be curling over and throwing up at this point.

You may have me confused with Christian, I don't care how fast my car is compared to other peoples. If I did I would have the 2.5 with the biggest turbo, not the smallest!

Edited to distill the humour into a more potent blend.

I hope everyone can see this is tongue in cheek, I know andy does!

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 19 June 2003).]

ChristianR
19th June 2003, 13:36
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam M:
You may have me confused with Christian, I don't care how fast my car is compared to other peoples. If I did I would have the 2.5 with the biggest turbo, not the smallest!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh?? I don't care how fast my car is compared to others, what I do find annoying is how everyone questions the power of my car http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif just because I used a blitz power meter id, or a rolling road people don't like! I mean I have been waiting since JANUARY for Andy to let me borrow his AP22, yet he constantly never sends it... Says it all really, no further comment required http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by ChristianR (edited 19 June 2003).]

Adam M
19th June 2003, 13:39
christian,

maybe he is using it himself? or doesn't trust you not to break it?

don't make this serious, I was sparring with andy.

and btw, remember I said I had changed my turbo?????

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 19 June 2003).]

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 13:42
Geez - A 'mine is SMALLER than yours' thread http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/eek.gif What am 'I' doing in here http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Christian, Your Beast would no doubt blow the circuitry when it imposed the massive G force upon it.

ChristianR
19th June 2003, 13:46
Joke as much as you want Andy, we all know why you don't want to send it!

Adam M
19th June 2003, 14:00
Andy,

you are right, you shouldn't be in this one.

When we change it to who has the biggest head? then you can come back and win http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

I would expect a close second though! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 14:10
Or smallest budget ! I might win that one http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam M
19th June 2003, 14:23
what was that? budget?

sorry I read something else.

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 14:31
When the discussion is lowered to personal comments http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif that's when I know I'm winning the game ........Woooohhhaaaaahhaaaa http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Andy.F (edited 19 June 2003).]

PS Your a fat Ba***rd http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Andy.F (edited 19 June 2003).]

Adam M
19th June 2003, 14:41
to my knwoledge we have never met, although I had heard you were a bit of a slap head? and very old!

where as I am youthful with a full head of hair.

Worth adding that I have lost two stone i the past 2 months or so, so the fat bastard comment may not be valid!

And you can't win.

your forte is the technical stuff, we are having an immature slanging match here. You are on my territory! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 14:46
I've seen the pics http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Anyway Christian was talking about his fast car so you're out your depth here...........hairy b......

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 14:48
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Where can I get one of these that will take some serious heat and flow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When I read that, I thought f**k me, he must be going to talk through it http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam M
19th June 2003, 14:55
I am surprised you don't have one sewn into the lining of all your Y-fronts for everytime you have something to say!

Andy.F
19th June 2003, 14:57
Ah ha ! A use for my spare Gruppe-s uppipe http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam M
19th June 2003, 15:20
I could retaliate, but am a little worried about fratrinising with people inclined to shove 2 inch pipes up their back sides!

Of course if they were (sexy) women, that would be fine.

i draw the line at balding old scotsmen.

but then I guess you arent bald, its just that your head is bigger than your hair!

john banks
19th June 2003, 15:41
Had a look in Partco and they had loads of Transits in the book, and a few gaskets, none of them were near a match for my Gruppe-S headers.

Do the Gruppe-S headers come with a composite or metal gasket?

Alan G mentioned he modified the bracket to not pull the uppipe up and much so as not to stress the gap and it seems to work.

Had horrendous problems with leaks from the standard Ion Performance headers the other day - he is trying the transit trick.

My collector gasket (original Subaru) is leaking with my rigid uppipe and OEM headers even now http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

MorayMackenzie
19th June 2003, 16:43
Oi! Banks! Nooo! Stop trying to raise the level of this thread. Go play with the titanic, you should have more luck raising that one.

Adam M
19th June 2003, 17:31
Once again moray "tries" to be "funny".

oh dear.

oh dear.

David_Wallis
19th June 2003, 18:11
Thank fuck for that.. I thread which is making me laugh.. Actually laughing out loud at this one..

Andy.. Class comment 'Talk through it'

David

Bob Rawle
19th June 2003, 18:30
Adam, Camberly Autofactors will stock a whole range including the transit gasket although it would probably be too big for HKS headers as they have a 50mm (ish) collector and the transit gasket fits a 62mm size. Worth wandering in there with your composite one and asking them for a laminated steel match, do search to find the nearest one to you.

bob

Adam M
19th June 2003, 21:35
Thanks bob,

no longer have the hks headers, it was more convenient to modify pats h and s headers to produce a 2.5 inch uppipe flange.The transit could therefore be perfect.

MorayMackenzie
19th June 2003, 22:08
"perfect" LOL.

Jolly Green Monster 2
19th June 2003, 22:22
This is excellent.. I was laughing so hard reading that I nearly fell off my chair..

callum ferguson
20th June 2003, 05:35
Having this problem with my headers / up-pipe. New gasket supplied with the headers lasted less than fifty miles. Transit gaskets tried, on advice of Bob, & they fit fine with only a small elongation of the holes but no success yet. Possibly time for a little flange surgery...with a large file....unlikely it will be paid for by the NHS though http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Jolly Green Monster 2
20th June 2003, 06:07
With standard headers is the only option the Subaru ones??

Cheers

Simon

Adam M
20th June 2003, 09:26
Bob,

are these the people you mean?

M & P Autofactors (Mitcham) Ltd
323-323a, London Rd
Mitcham Surrey
CR4 4BE

they know nothing about individual bits so would need to know exactly what i am asking for.

Is it simply an exhaust manifold outlet gasket for a transit van?

They said they know no technical details about them at all. So anything anyone can tell me would be great.

Thanks in advance.

AndrewC
20th June 2003, 09:47
Has anyone seen these gaskets (http://www.dynoengineering.com/) apparently made from chrysotile asbestos fiber in a synthetic rubber binder.

They are a bit thicker than OEM gaskets and designed specifically for problems with leaking replacement uppipes.

Andrew...

Andy.F
20th June 2003, 10:37
Looks promising Andrew but they will be standard size (2") I assume ?
I made a replacement gasket from similar material from work (High Pressure Steam jointing) but the real problem was that the flanges were not flat on the uppipe. No gasket was ever going to seal it !

I think these are the gaskets originally supplied with the iON headers (Harvey, I still have yours) Personally, I prefer a steel laminate. If it blows, it just leaks a bit, where the composite one just disintigrates http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/eek.gif leaving a gaping hole in your exhaust system !

Andy

(How the hell did this thread manage to get back on topic http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Adam M
20th June 2003, 11:08
Andy, we should try harder to bring it back down.

although admittedly I did genuinely need to know the answer.

AndrewC
20th June 2003, 11:09
Should have said, these are direct replacements for OEM gaskets, John started making them after problems with fitting solid uppipes.

He has also commented that the upipe/turbo brackets may need altering slightly to ensure correct alignment of the uppipe which is something that has been mentioned on here/SNet.

I might try a set anyway...

Andy.F
20th June 2003, 11:14
Adam, normally your attempt to add technical input drags it down, don't know whats gone wrong here http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Adam M
20th June 2003, 11:25
I only input what I do so that you can prove me wrong, thus making yourself look better.

It has always has been about image for you, perhaps thats why you polish your head, to reflect more light, forcing people to notice you more.

ok. am done for now. Have been smiling profusely on this thread, but if I start down this road today I wont get this work in front of me done, and I really need to bill someone before the weekend!

harvey
20th June 2003, 11:38
Just seen this post. Sorry to see you have had a problem Callum.
Adam:I have several of these gaskets (new) so if you are stuck send me the address you want one to go to and I will post today.

When I first had problem, last December I think, I went to a local exhaust company who not only sell standard exhausts but have a mandrel bender and all types of welding and cutting gear. On a large board with over a hundred varios gaskets I found one that with a total of 4mm elongation reduction of the two fixing hole centres it was ideal The guy said he thought it may be Transit but now I suspect it is not. Centre hole is 62mm.
Quick Fit on this occassion were a waste of time.
Have been and checked the P/No.
ARVIN
TESH/Ansa 410293
Hosi 410293
Max FDG39AC
If anybody is still in difficulty, having tried to help themselves then I can obtain and forward.
These are for the Ion Spec Headers and have a 62mm approx hole. The Ion Spec gasket supplied was made from Halite and I concluded it would not last. Bob tried one of these, was sceptical and subsequently proved what we both knew. No bloody use.
Hope this helps everybody wanting a 62mm approx header to up-pie gasket.

Andy.F
20th June 2003, 11:47
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam M:
I only input what I do so that you can prove me wrong !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where would I be without you xxx http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Adam M
20th June 2003, 12:25
With your ego? probably floating somewhere in the exosphere. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I resign (again) undefeated after that one! (until a rematch no doubt).

David_Wallis
20th June 2003, 12:46
Harvey.. what size can they mandrel bend max??

mild or stainless not fussed.. mail off line if you prefer..

David

callum ferguson
20th June 2003, 14:06
Hi Harvey,
Many thanks for the information on the gaskets. I am sure that the leak will get sorted soon.

AndrewC,
Useful link to the Dyno Engineering site, now all I need is some time to turn a cutter to convert the hole dimensions from 2" to 2.5". http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

I am still convinced that the tested method of Transit / laminated gaskets will work for the headers to uppipe but agree that the flanges need to be flat.
No critisim intended here but I just assumed that custom headers would have flat flanges to allow good sealing, particularly as this appears to be a recognised problem.

I continue to learn which is great http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

harvey
20th June 2003, 19:09
Callum: That would seem a reasonable assumption.
Stick to the p/no.s as it may be they are not Ford Transit. If stuck e-mail or phone as I have to replenish my supply so could get a couple for you if McPartco is a long way away.
David:No idea what they can mandrel bend to but I have three contacts here for that in N.E. Will make enquiries and revert Monday pm.

john banks
20th June 2003, 21:38
Anyone tell me the ID of the Gruppe-S headers?

john banks
21st June 2003, 09:27
It is 61mm I just received my composite gasket this morning. Will take a trip to partco armed with your numbers Harvey, thanks.

David_Wallis
21st June 2003, 11:04
Cheers Harvey.. Youve got my number / email add.

john banks
21st June 2003, 17:29
Partco had some in so sorted. Thanks Harvey.

callum ferguson
21st June 2003, 21:48
Harvey - many thanks for the offer, McPartco is some distance away but Brian has been able to find a McCarpartsupplier in Aberdeen that had the correct ones. I have also ordered some from the Dyno Engineering site in case we have problems with any of the others. Headers coming back off soon for tweaking with a file and probably a die grinder while I am at it.

Discovered a good tip for leak testing using soapy water from a spray bottle - never was much of a plumber http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif Headers get bl**dy hot when feeling for leaks http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

harvey
23rd June 2003, 16:29
David:In Darlington "Exhaust A Fix" do up to 2.5". Tsunami Racing may only do 2". There is a company at Consett but I do not know the name, but Kevin at Link Pipes used to work for them. Ask him 07987 888585. Kevin does a lot of pipe fabrication, mainly motor bkes but I think he cpold make headers.
There is a bespoke exhaust company in both Sheffield and Doncaster but I have not got their numbers yet.
I believe that Hayward and Scott can do up to 3.5" Speak to Gordon or Ian.
If none of this helps give me more specific info and I will see what I can do.

David_Wallis
23rd June 2003, 21:19
its to make a downpipe.. haywards cant do 3.5"

Ill give them a try..

David

Slooby
23rd June 2003, 22:52
David, you could always try the guy's I 'tried' to get the up-pipes made by if your feeling brave http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/tongue.gif they're local to you http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Jolly Green Monster 2
23rd June 2003, 23:24
Any one decifer the uppipe gasket codes :

G5101A, G5201B, G5301C, G5401D, G5501E ?

This is from Dyno Engineering's site, thanks Andrew.

Tempted to order some..

Simon

stevieturbo
23rd June 2003, 23:39
Anyone ever tried Just bolting them together with no gasket???
After all, 2 properly machined flat surfaces should seal without difficulty.
Ive bolted turbochargers to manifolds before with no gaskets without any problems.

AndrewC
24th June 2003, 06:57
44022AA150 = G5101A
44022AA170 = G5201B
44022AA180 = G5301C
14038AA000 = G5401D
44011FA020 = G5501E

If you want to order more than 1 (but not the full set) online you have to create your own link to paypal.

I've ordered a top and bottom uppipe gasket to try (G5101A/G5201B).

Andrew...

[This message has been edited by AndrewC (edited 24 June 2003).]

Andy.F
24th June 2003, 15:45
Std 2WD Sierra Cosworth manifold flange is face to face (jointless) although this is manufactured from a different material to the tubular headers and presumably to a different tolerance !

Andy

stevieturbo
24th June 2003, 16:03
Some pinto manifolds are also bolted to the head, directly from the factory with no gaskets, as are most rover v8 engines.

callum ferguson
24th June 2003, 17:46
Ported my custom headers this morning. Overlap varied from a minimum of 3mm to maximum of 6.5mm so I assume, given very little knowledge, that it was well worth doing. Less messy to machine than the OEM cast headers as the swarf came off in pieces rather than dust.
There is no way that they would seal on a metal to metal joint without having the flanges ground after welding as they are not flat. Presumably this would have to be done in a jig/fixture or on a mill with a good length of bed travel, even then they would be awkward to hold. Not perfect but a square and a file have to suffice for now http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif & a gasket will still be essential.

David_Wallis
24th June 2003, 18:37
may be possible on a surface grinder?

David

callum ferguson
24th June 2003, 20:27
Hi David,
A surface grinder would be fine if both exhaust flanges could be machined in the same setup. I guess some of the motorsport fabricators must have access to grinders with enough travel. Two T-slotted angle plates could probably be bogged to hold the headers. The flanges on mine are certainly tough, read a b*tch to file flat, and would grind to a good finish.

P20SPD
24th June 2003, 20:32
David, what happened to the guy we saw near Armley for bending 3.5" pipework??

Jolly Green Monster 2
24th June 2003, 21:03
AndrewC,

I was obviously being a bet dense..

I assumed they were different sets not the individual gaskets..

I'll have another look, but was that $70 per gasket then!!! :OMG:

Last time I tried to create a Paypal account I needed a USA address?!

Simon http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

AndrewC
25th June 2003, 06:51
My gaskets turned up yesterday morning, not bad since I ordered them on Friday evening, perfect fit for my H&S uppipe.

Simon, you are being dense! The 2 uppipe gaskets are £35.

The only problem is that using the Paypal links on John's website you can only order a full set or individual gaskets with P&P being added to each one, although he only charges the $5 once!

I can order them for you if you're struggling, or send you the link you need to ordered the right parts if you let me know what you want.

Andrew...

Jolly Green Monster 2
25th June 2003, 11:37
AndrewC,

Thanks..

I am soon to be changing headers and uppipe on my MY96 so I am after the full set.

Slightly confused as I could 6 gaskets including downpipe but only 5 are listed?!

The one where the headers split must be missing? I am checking there website in another window at the moment if the connection ever speed up enough..

If it was £35 for two then going to be more than double that for the lot so I might fit standard ones, although haven't run the dealers for prices on them yet.

If I have to revisit because they leak then so be it. O

I am fitting standard but Ported headers so standard gaskets should be upto the job in theory.

Cheers

Simon

AndrewC
25th June 2003, 13:45
I'm only using them on the uppipe because of all the problems I have read about with solid uppipes.

It was $35 not £35, i think it was £23 with shipping.

Andrew...

stevieturbo
25th June 2003, 15:57
Does this thread also imply that most manifolds are of crap quality, and that the flanges are not flat?? Or that they are warping during use??
If the flanges are flat, then gaskets should not be blowing so often, regardless of make.

harvey
25th June 2003, 19:31
Stevie: When first fitted I had no problems over a substantial mileage and my dificulties started after the exhaust got hotter than normal as a result of a problem relative to the W.G.At this point the headers had been off and on several times.

Personally I think that the headers distorted in time aided by heat and the flanges had distorted.

Better stainless might help or some form of flexi joint but that could have problems of its own.

Andy.F
25th June 2003, 19:38
I think the manifolds are excellent quality....but....I suspect that the flanges have warped during welding to the uppipe. They have a machined face but there is a definite warp detectable. The 2 bolt flange ony makes this worse if you overtighten it !

callum ferguson
25th June 2003, 19:54
Stevie: The problem with my headers was there from the start but I still wouldn't say they are crap. As with many components they are produced to a tolerance & a price. It would just be useful to be pre-warned that there are potential issues with them. It would not stop me buying another set.

I work in a completely different tuning world but many of the high value components still benefit from being reworked before assembly http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Pblamire
26th June 2003, 11:30
I was going to get a couple oc stiffening ribs welded around the sides of the flange on my headers and up-pipe. Something like 3mm thick and 10mm depth (making the edges of the flange around 20mm thick).

paul

Anders
26th June 2003, 20:21
I am confused!

Adam has at last been funy! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/eek.gif

BTW as a gulty 22B 2.5L non runner I am not chirpy that it is over running past the ten of the best http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/frown.gif

Wagon might be but not counting my chickens http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/eek.gif

Pblamire
26th June 2003, 21:12
Just one question, how have we managed 78 posts for just a single gasket?

paul

Adam M
26th June 2003, 22:55
I blame that andy forrest bloke, he is a dodgy character http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

harvey
27th June 2003, 11:32
We could send him a big spoon for his birthday....but on reflection that might only make matters worse.

AndrewC
7th July 2003, 09:46
I fitted the DynoEng gaskets on Friday with my solid uppipe, no signs of leaking yet, but they smoked like bu99ery for about half an hour once they got hot!

Andrew...

stevieturbo
8th July 2003, 19:34
While on the subject of manifolds. I know everyone wraps their manifolds, and that heat retention is good.
Ive also read threads were the heat from the manifolds have in some cases, melted various bits of car.
So, is it totally necessary to wrap them, and is it to insulate to keep heat in, or to protect the car??? or both.
Has anyone tried them unwrapped?? does it make any difference performance wise?? is the car melting bit, limited to a few select cases??
And finally...would leaving tehm unwrapped possibly reduce the chances of flange warpage due to excessive heat build up ??


[This message has been edited by stevieturbo (edited 08 July 2003).]

MorayMackenzie
9th July 2003, 10:23
Good question Stevie, worthy of a thread of it's own so we don't loose it.

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000194.html

Anders
10th July 2003, 21:57
My fecking sh1t equal lenth headers from Scooby sport that they "fixed " with exhaust putty melted everything in site http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/frown.gif

Undertrays wiring looms you name it http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/frown.gif

Croney never took responsibility as he doesn't understand things http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/frown.gif

António Correia Jr
21st July 2003, 13:16
Hi,

Raising the subject again due to a recurring problem.

My external wastegate / exhaust gaskets (just before the catalyst) keep failing.

Initially I had the paper type ones that came with the kit fitted; afterwards, I tried some aluminum cut gaskets; now I've removed the gaskets.

Every solution failed me after a few trips.

I'm considering having some made to my requirements.
Any special material I can use, or should I resort to steel?

Thanks,

António Correia Jr.

Adam M
21st July 2003, 20:20
Harvey,

was going to ask if you can supply me about 5 of those gaskets you got for me.

Will be doing some more testing meaning the thing is going to be installed and dismantled a lot of times.

Will send you an email anyway, but just in case you are reading this.

stevieturbo
21st July 2003, 23:23
Forever replacing gaskets isnt going to cure the underlying problem.
If the flanges arent flat, then a gasket will never seal.
Strictly speaking, no gasket should be necessary if the flanges are both totally flat.
And if I ever get a set on my car, and they give me as much bother as everyones seem to, id weld the 2 bloody bits together...lol

johnfelstead
22nd July 2003, 00:04
On the race engines i have built/installed we dont use gaskets on the exhaust components. We use a very high temperature silicone sealant on the exhaust flange where it mates to the head, then use slip joints with retaining brakets where the pipes join. This sealant is designed specifically for race car exhaust systems, not bathrooms. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif LOL

If everything is matched properly, high temp silicone used very sparingly works a treat on flat mating surfaces.

António Correia Jr
22nd July 2003, 08:04
The flanges were checked and they were flat when I joined them without a gasket.

I'll use a sealant this time and see how it goes.

All in all, after 7000 km with the 2,5l engine, gaskets seem to be the only problem. I can live with it.

Cheers,

António Correia Jr.

ChRoMe
22nd July 2003, 11:27
john:Is this stuff you have used easy to come by in the UK?

johnfelstead
23rd July 2003, 23:09
i havnt bought any for a while, we originally used the first tube in the UK when we were building the 5 litre. I'll check and see what the score is now.

stevieturbo
24th July 2003, 16:30
Its a gasket from the front pipe of a mondeo. Not sure what model. Also fits some transits up to 94.

stevieturbo
25th July 2003, 13:01
Just fitted the manifolds to Michaels engine last night. He isnt using the Gruppe-S Up-pipe due to his turbo.
Both flanges did appear flat. When first bolted up, the up-pipe did not meet the manifolds, and this caused quite a gap. Once some brackets were adjusted, the 2 bolted up fine. However, they def would not have sealed. After a lot of work with the grinder, bolting and unbolting, we think that it is pretty close to sealing, even without a gasket.
I can only assume the flanges on the Gruppe S distort when bolted up, as they did appear flat. We ground this flange until both surface mated together as well as we could get them.
Also using the Mondeo front pipe gasket that has already been mentioned here.
Will know in the next day or 2 if it has actually sealed.

The manifolds do look good, but that is a serious manufacturing flaw, if when bolted up they dont fit, or seal together.

stevieturbo
28th July 2003, 16:01
After getting the engine running at the weekend, they do appear to be sealed.
However, the car hasnt had any abuse yet, so not sure what will happen once there is some pressure in the manifolds.

I would reccomend anyone fitting a set, to bolt the up-pipe and manifold together before fitting to the car, to check ( without gasket ) that both flanges bolt together as they should.
Better to check outside of the car, than inside the car. Much easier. Some grinding or filing may be needed to get them to seal.
Luckily the engine was out of the car when we fitted them, and it was quite clear to see that they would not have sealed without alterations.
We only used the Gruppe-S manifolds, along with an HKS p-pipe. The up-pipe was definately flat, as it had been installed on OE manifolds with no problems.
So the problems do lie with the Gruppe S bits.

StanS
28th July 2003, 19:31
FWIW, I had 12 months trouble free (gasket wise) using standard ported headers to a Scoobysport up pipe with up to 2 bar boost.
Changed headers for latest H&S (very nice !), but after about 5 power runs on mapping, blew gasket. Took it back to H&S who thoroughly checked flange flatness, and refitted headers but used 2 gaskets (steel) for up pipe join, and so far no probs (but true test - not yet had mapping finished). Mod was recommended (nicked) from some Porche racing bods who use it as a std fix for this prob).
Stan

ScoobyWhite
28th July 2003, 22:15
This is my first post here................Thanks

I already read whit very careful all your answer/questions, but I really do not know what can I do to resolve this BIG problem.

How can we stop leaks once for all.......
This is a question from a person(me) that do not understand very much about this........

So please can you help me!!!
Could you tell me what sould we do step by step????


Thanks

johnfelstead
28th July 2003, 22:51
The cosworth GroupA spec engines i have worked with dont have any gasket between the exhaust manifold and the turbo, the 4 clamping bolts are suficient to give a seal with no issues, this is on engines running 450lbft torque and agresive ALS.

The cossie manifold is a substantial casting though, so isnt going to distort with heat in the same way a steel flat plate welded to a pipe is going to.

One idea worth trying is to either use a type of wills ring, or maybe wire ringing the gasket area and using steel gaskets, just like you do with ultra high compresion head gaskets.