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View Full Version : Carbon fibre intercooler pipework, good or bad thing?



Adam M
28th January 2003, 13:00
see title.

I only ask this because mine is currently steel and very very heavy.

If autoclaved, the pipework can more than handle the boost and is perfectly sealed.

will still be joined with samco and jubilee clips.

Will use my existing pipework as a templte for the new stuff.

any thoughts?

Pblamire
28th January 2003, 13:06
Even an average carbon bi-directional cloth will come out stiffer than aluminium thickness for thickness. Yet they should come out about 2/3 of the weight of Aluminium.

Autoclaved and post curing should make it stable up to 200'C using the correct resins. So I don't think you will have a problem.

You just need to tell the people making it what the temperature requirements are, and they should use the correct resin (I'm still talking pre-preg btw).

Making carbon tubes is a PITA though.

Paul

David_Wallis
28th January 2003, 13:06
Nice Idea, should look good.. how brittle is carbon fibre.. rally teams dont use it though..

Would be nice touch though..

David

AndrewC
28th January 2003, 14:10
Adam,

While you're considering this, then I think there would be a definite market for carbon intake pipes!

Andrew...

Adam M
28th January 2003, 14:29
well, I have been speaking with daz jaye a lot over the past few days and it would appear that he is going all out for moulding subaru bits, especially as he has just bought one.

he managed to mould the bonnet, and we are supplying a scoop v soon. He will be moulding the old style bonnet, scoop and vents too.

he is also waiting on 1.25 metre width carbon so that the bonnets need nto ahve any joins! should look lovely.

Andrew, I know already that he as made some kind of aps type cold air induction pipe and I dont see why he cant make a proper carbon inlet pipe too. would certainly be a market as you say, but a little more difficult to get to peoples needs due to different size turbo inlets. Will certainly suggest it.

Paul, thanks for the help as ever, will take note and explain all to darren.

He has expressed a willingness to help me out.

I would use ally, but my currentones are steel, and either way the new ones are going to have to be made. CF will certainly look better, but I was thinking about its radiating properties. It will have a higher albedo than ally thats for sure due to its polished finish. I think matt carbon would be an option if I were to request it, but I would ahve thought shiny black would probably work best in under the bonnet.

Darren is already in place and has expressed a willingness to help me with the pipework, it will probably end up costing me more to look for ally, but one things for sure, the steel weighs a sh1t load.

SecretAgentMan
28th January 2003, 14:39
I'd kill for a nice properly made inlet actually.

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

/J

Tone Loc
28th January 2003, 14:39
I'd second the interest in the inlet pipe. I agree that they would be quite varied requirements.... i need only one t off for the ISCV, others will need none, others will reuire dump valve inlets etc. The outlet size would probably be quite similar.... a lot of use now seem to be getting front entry Tdo5's with the 61mm inlet (from Mark or elsewhere). Prodrive used to use a carbon one on the old group a cars.... looked very nice!

I was/am going to use bits of off the shelf samco and ali tube.... not the somest flow and where reducers are required it's quite sharp.

If you get anymore info Adam let me know.

Tony.

Adam M
28th January 2003, 15:05
trouble is the standard one is restrictive as it is provides a unnecessarily tortuous flow path and restricted diameter.

It would mean simply copying the standard one would be foolish. The original would have to be custom made and then copied.

Any thoughts on how this could be done?

suppose it could be supplied with reducers if necessary for differing inlet diameters and take offs can always be blocked if they arent necessary.

Is there any reason why the take offs need to come from where they do, could they not be supplied as a separate piece which fits on the end where it is easier to get to, prior to joining the maf?

suppose you would then ahve to adapt the breather pipework so thats a nono.

Tone Loc
28th January 2003, 15:12
We've also got the question of different size mafs... 80mm and 90mm. That's not really a problem cos you'd need a samco coupler anyway to join to the maf either a straight 80mm or a 90-80mm reducer. The breather system is a problem for me as im putting a catch tank in and then VTA.

There's a few questions but a suitable solution should be able to be found?

Tony.

AndrewC
28th January 2003, 16:19
Adam,

I think were talking about a carbon-copy (pun intended) of the BPM type inlet. I think that the only connections required would be ISCV and possibly recirc from the DV. Most people who would be considering this would have/be fitting a catch tank anyway, not sure if you could use a single connection for those 2?

As for diameters I think you would be struggling with 1 size fits all, although I personally would be happy for 80mm at the MAF through to 60mm at the turbo inlet.

I would be interested in any details of the cold air induction pipe.

Andrew...

carl
28th January 2003, 17:34
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It will have a higher albedo than ally thats for sure due to its polished finish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Surely you jest, Adam? I'm pretty convinced that 'shiny black' will be less reflective than matt aluminium (silver). Silver-coloured things are silver-coloured because they reflect a lot of light.

MorayMackenzie
28th January 2003, 17:44
The finish on the inside of the pipes will be important. Can you get smooth internal finishes?

The rally teams don't seem to use CF on the pressure side of the inlet. If there was an clear advantage in doing so, I suspect they would.

Of course, it will certainly make the car look super tarty. This may be a Plus or a Minus depending on your viewpoint.

Adam M
28th January 2003, 19:53
Carl,

sorry mistake, you are right, should be completely the other way round.

I mean that in terms of reducing the absorption, a high "shininess" will be better than a low one.

and shiny carbon fibre bridges the gap somewhat by nature of its shininess, but ally will as you say absorb less background heat than carbon due to its higher albedo.

Black bodies will radiate more, but then they will absorb more, question is whether the under bonnet temps are greater than the charge temps inside the pipes at the boost I am running.

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 28 January 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 28 January 2003).]

MorayMackenzie
29th January 2003, 12:45
If that is the question... the answer is that charge temp before i/c will be way over ambient engine bay temp at the high boost levels you want.

[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 29 January 2003).]

Pblamire
29th January 2003, 12:53
Adam,

Carbon intake pipes tend to be made on a male tool to get a good finish on the inside of the pipe. But if you want to make a long pipe with a 2 bends in it you're stuffed unless you don't mind wasting a male tool for each part!

It's not easy however you look at it. You can try using a split female tool, but then you have to either join two cured parts together, or layup on a former (covered with the vac bag) and transfer to the female tool, but then you still have to remove the former.

On another note, I saw a bonnet at Mark's, and with the exception of the obvious, was very impressed. How much for a legacy bonnet, assuming I can get say 5 other people interested?

Paul

Adam M
30th January 2003, 02:03
You might not need to get 5 others interested.

In exchange for having your bonnet available for moulding, if darrenw ere interested in such a market I am sure he would consider making just one for you.

The obvious has been fixed, take a look at my bumper in the projects forum!