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harvey
18th March 2002, 19:22
I believe Samco & others do a replacement silicone pipe which replaces the tract that runs under the o/s inlet manifold to the turbo inlet.
As I now have the engine in bits this is the time to do any mods of this type.
I am using an APS Cool Air System.
Is the Samco a direct replacement or does it shorten the inlet length thus needing a coupling pipe to retain the APS?
Anybody any experience of this mod, good or bad?
Supplier of said pipe?

Adam M
19th March 2002, 10:53
I think it is an exact replacement of the standard item.

I know BPM sell hem too for about 200.

They claim big gains, but are ultimately limited by the space under the manifold.

Due to playign around with my turbo inlet, I cant fit one, but having done everything I would look at one if I could.

RaymondH
20th March 2002, 14:46
200 from Graham Goode. I fitted mine some time after the Blitz, HKS boost controller, Samco intercooler hoses etc and the difference is definitely noticeable. The standard offering is very restricted when you get a proper look at it. Your dump valve sounds better, too, if that's what turns you on http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Jacko
21st March 2002, 11:31
Hi Harvey,
I would be very careful fitting a Samco one if I were you! I like others with heavily modded scoobs, i.e. Moe aka Topcat have had these hoses either collapse under boost 1.3bar+ at a given rpm (throttling turbo). These hoses have also been known to be too short to actually fit onto the turbocharger. The connections are also not glued properly and twist around so not giving an adequate seal. Other than those issues I would buy one http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
No bad reports about the MRT/BPM one though, much better product IMHO.
I currently run a Samco one and it is coming off early next month to be replaced back with the standard OEM one. The standard one is good enough for high boost applications. Bob Rawle uses the OEM one and you guys all know that his car (regardless of what ECU he is fiddling with) is a 4 wheeled bullet http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

Jacko.

[This message has been edited by Jacko (edited 21 March 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Jacko (edited 21 March 2002).]

Adam M
21st March 2002, 13:53
bobs car has certainly always been fast, but he seems to have lagged behind the new crop of high power cars, such as the likes of Moe, Tim W, andy tang, trout etc.

I dont think he is so interetsed in high power these days.

Never did see his results with teh aps on there.

harvey
22nd March 2002, 01:29
Jacko : Thankyou for taking the trouble & your helpful reply which has alerted me to the possible pitfalls with the Samco.
Thanks also to everyone else for their contribution(s)

Chan HT
24th March 2002, 16:56
Jacko,
Just curious,how do you know or find out that the SAMCO inlet pipe collapse under heavy boost??
A friend's heavily modified WRX with BPM silicon inlet suffer like fuel cut effect when his car is boosting 1.4 bar at above 6000 rpm occasionally.Could this be the silicon inlet duct collapsing??

Chan HT

Jacko
25th June 2002, 14:14
Chan, sorry for the late.....LATE reply on this one!
The only way I found this out was to have it dyno'd. When you start to reach the rpm level at which this issue occurs, lift the bonnet and take a peak! it was the only way of identifying a sudden drop in boost. I checked all hoses, ECU map etc etc.
On second thoughts, one easy way to identify whether it is the inlet pipe is to fit an induction kit ilo the OEM air box.
This leads me onto my open apology to Samco, that although I still think the product is poorly made, the collapse of the pipe was due to air box/air filter/wing resonator restriction, so effectively throttling the turbo, therefore sucking the sides of the pipe inward. Although in my defence, Samco do not state when buying one of these hoses, that not to use them on a modified Turbo, i.e. VF series ilo TD and do not use them on high boost applications.

Jacko....only eating a small piece of humble pie http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Jacko (edited 25 June 2002).]

stevieturbo
25th June 2002, 16:49
I read somewhere that the Samco pipe is of questionable quality. MRT seem to do a big write up about their replacement pipe being much superior, than others. Have only seen pics though, xo cant comment other than that. Not sure who makes GGR's pipes. They would claim they make them themselves, or are specially made for them, but who knows. It is probably just a samco item.

Jacko
26th June 2002, 11:32
Stevie, the GGR inlet pipe IS S@mco! That is where I sourced my SEVERAL http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/frown.gif inlet pipes from.
As mentioned previous, these inlet pipes give little gains on a low modded car especially when using the OEM AirBox+Panel filter. With the inclusion of an induction kit better gains can be had.
I personally, like some others, have tried them and thought them to be cack, especially considering the labour intensive task that pursues every time you fit one and when the fcukers go t1ts up http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

Jacko.

Chan HT
28th June 2002, 12:25
Jacko,
Thanks for the info.I had my BPM blue inlet duct out 3 weeks ago.The STi ones in red looks like a better quality than the blue silicon ones.

Chan HT

Adam M
1st July 2002, 12:32
would appear that christians samco inlet tract has collapsed under suction from the turbo and prevented him from getting more than 359bhp at 6000ish rpm from 0.95 bar.

These are more extreme conditions, and it would appear his turbo was sucking like a prostitute going for the felatio world record.

I wonder if the other makes might have faired better or is it simply a case of the you cannot get enough material in that location to make the product capable of handling the task at hand.

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 01 July 2002).]

MorayMackenzie
1st July 2002, 14:40
Sounds like christians air filter isn't man enough for the job. too small or too dirty an airfilter and the pressure drop across the element will do NO good for the engine, and will certainly help to generate sufficient vaccum to collapse the intake duct pipe.

harvey
1st July 2002, 20:19
Please be aware that Christians turbo inlet diameter is larger than standard and he has had his Samco pipe modified to cater for this.
As I understand it the failure is on the modified opened out end and not on the original pipe diameter.

Jacko
2nd July 2002, 07:39
Just to add, that I tried 3 different panel filters in the OEM airbox when I found this throttling issue.
The 3 I tried were, K&N, HKS and ITG. It did not matter which one was in, the Samco hose still collapsed.
I would suggest once again, that anyone running above 1.2bar should consider having
to use an induction kit of some sort when using the Samco inlet pipe.
To be perfectly honest, I did not notice any difference in performance when swapping back to the OEM inlet pipe apart from it was much quieter.

Jacko (97myUK, Link, VF23, STiV-TMIC, SS-dp, HKS Hyper mid+BB)

[This message has been edited by Jacko (edited 02 July 2002).]

Danny Fisher
2nd July 2002, 11:24
Jacko, I ran my car at 1.6 BAR using the standard inlet pipe, with a cone on the end without issues.

The onoly reason I can see for changing to the samco type pipe is for the fitting to the turbo inlet. Standard pipes get a nasty kink in them.

Dan

Jacko
2nd July 2002, 13:44
Agreed!
OEM good enough but looks and fits cr@p! just how I like it http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

'tatty car' Jacko

MorayMackenzie
2nd July 2002, 15:34
I'll be replacing the standard duct eventually, but with a diy job once i have removed the need for all the ancialliary hoses. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

harvey
2nd July 2002, 20:09
Let me know how you get on with it. I am considering fabricating one in stainless with help from a friend who makes exhausts for racing motor bikes.It would certainly be smooth and help air flow but the stainless may heat up the charge. Any thoughts?

CarlosH
2nd July 2002, 21:22
For those of you that don't have A/C .... this seems to be a nice idea:

http://upload.turbosport.co.uk/gallery5/200269208525711.JPG

you would need a SAMCO 90 / 90mm hose and then a venturi shaped reducer (probably machined piece) to go from 90mm to 46.7mm (of IHI VF 23,24,28,29). And also you could relocate the steering pump were the air conditing compressor is normally placed.

Carlos H.

[This message has been edited by CarlosH (edited 02 July 2002).]

Danny Fisher
3rd July 2002, 06:17
Dont tell AdamM about this. Next thing we know, he will be wanting to make one from that bloody carbon stuff. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Dan

Adam M
3rd July 2002, 09:07
you know what danny, that is a great idea.

but I cant be arsed.

dotn think stainless is a good idea, especially given where it is, plus it would radiate next to the inlet manifold adding even more heat to the charge.

I would stick with silicone or possibly as danny suggested, carbon fibre!

David_Wallis
3rd July 2002, 10:44
Carlos... that is a phase 1 inlet.. not sti and its on andyf's car... that inlet is raised up and it is on a modified td05...

Adam Why would stainless be an issue?? Im not up on the properties of stainless vs silicone... but You could allways wrap it with exhaust wrap... I would be tempted to insert something into the hose, almost like a spiral to stop it collapsing..

As for christians car I thought it was running a hks super racing suction kit... and I dont see this being a restriction or the problem... How has the hose been modified?

David

Adam M
3rd July 2002, 11:19
I was under the impression he was running a standard panel filter.

will need him to clarify.

I thought the same as you david, insert a spiral or something rigid http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif.

Even lagging stainless I would be concerned.

the specific heat capacity of steel is such that it will take some time to heat but once it is hot, it will be quite a heat reservoir.

If lagged, it is less likely to reflect heat radiated from engine and less likely to radiate outwards once it has been heated. It will still be able to radiate the heat inward to the aircharge meaning the intercooler has that little bit extra work to do.

I would sooner use a proper home made silcon construction.

David_Wallis
3rd July 2002, 13:22
home made???

tubes of sicone sealer??

do you really mean home made or custom made?

David

Danny Fisher
3rd July 2002, 13:52
David, Custom made explains why Adam's car has been out of action for soooooo long. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Dan

Adam M
3rd July 2002, 13:54
home assembled from bits of bought samco.

ChristianR
3rd July 2002, 14:20
I am using a hks racing suction kit.

[This message has been edited by ChristianR (edited 03 July 2002).]

harvey
3rd July 2002, 20:23
Home made silicone? What sort of kitchem/ workshop have you got?
Ask me late Autum about my previous suggestion. What about the effect of vibration? Have a solution to the temp ingres prob ]
Vibration= cracking.