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Adam M
27th June 2003, 10:53
Just looking at T-Uks header and wondering why no one has tried completely overdoing the unequal length primaries and sending the outlet primary from numbers 1 and 3 almost directly to the collectors making that tube about 4 inches long compared witht he 40 or so of the other.

I know there is theory on this as to why it needs a minimum length, but there are advantages and disadvantages to all combinations. Why has no one tried it? it would mean you wouldn't need the gases from 1 and 3 to turn through 180 degrees to joint the collector as they would never be required to point towards the front of the car.

P20SPD
27th June 2003, 11:24
What these
http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/hated%20wrapping%20these%20fuckers.JPG

Surely the gasses would then have to do a 90degree right turn to go to the turbo?


[This message has been edited by P20SPD (edited 27 June 2003).]

ChristianR
27th June 2003, 11:29
Here you go:

http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/hated%20wrapping%20these%20fuckers.JPG

john banks
27th June 2003, 14:21
I wondered exactly the same.

Andy.F
27th June 2003, 20:56
It could probably be made to work if you had a clever ECU ie one that could optimise the different fueling and ignition timing curve requirements for the two cylinders with the short runners.
The optimum cam profile and compression ratio for those cylinders would probably be different too.

Bob Rawle
27th June 2003, 21:48
Maybe I'll try it, Motec M800 would be perfect for it as can do both.

MorayMackenzie
30th June 2003, 14:21
I look forward to seeing pat's results on his 3.3 6 cylinder project. He will be using the Pectel T6's facility to run a separate true wideband sensor on each cylinder bank. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

The T6 is pretty impressive running closed loop wideband on a single sensor on my car, so seperate control over each bank will be pretty interesting. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

CarlosH
30th June 2003, 15:36
Pectel this ..... Pectel that

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Pblamire
30th June 2003, 15:51
Sometimes I wonder how us plebs manage to cope without a Pectel T6 http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Slooby
30th June 2003, 17:10
From memory isn't an M800 set up similar money to a T6? At about 2500GBP?

Bob Rawle
30th June 2003, 18:33
M800 is indeed in Pectel cost territory ...

CarlosH
30th June 2003, 19:39
But I think that all of the "xtras" in Pectel like dual wideband inputs have a "xtra" cost http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif .....

Carlos H.

harvey
30th June 2003, 22:19
Six wideband sensors? Running six all at the same time? Cost? How long will they stay in place???

David_Wallis
30th June 2003, 22:51
Harvey...

I would guess 2..

One per bank ie, left & right..

cost??

About 110each after my group buy.. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

David

Adam M
1st July 2003, 07:32
speaking of that, when is it?

I need my sensors, yesterday if you know what I mean!

Adam M
1st July 2003, 07:36
out of interest, when you cost the two up with almost all the same features, the basic prices of the two units was about the same.

But when you add the other things required to get the T6 going, it just mounts and mounts.

By the time you have it in the car, I cant see you getting much change from 4k.

MorayMackenzie
1st July 2003, 09:57
Pavlo,

"Sometimes I wonder how us plebs manage to cope without a Pectel T6 "

Same way you cope withoug a Motec M800?

Why didn't Bobs M800 comment elicit the same response?

nom
1st July 2003, 12:03
Adam - which sensor is it you need 'yesterday'? http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif Is it the L1H1?
I have a spare one sitting in a cupboard doing nothing at the moment if not having one's holding things up for you.

David_Wallis
1st July 2003, 12:26
Its the one he ordered from me he needs..

as per thread on scoobynet I have them all now http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif

Pblamire
1st July 2003, 13:26
I think the M800 in factory plug in form is much much cheaper than the generic wire in one.

Paul

CarlosH
1st July 2003, 14:18
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MorayMackenzie:
Pavlo,

"Sometimes I wonder how us plebs manage to cope without a Pectel T6 "

Same way you cope withoug a Motec M800?

Why didn't Bobs M800 comment elicit the same response?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Moray go to the search facility and type "Moray" + "Pectel" ..... look for the results http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

MorayMackenzie
1st July 2003, 16:00
Carlos,

"Moray go to the search facility and type "Moray" + "Pectel" ..... look for the results "

Okay, in order to try and understand your reply, I did as you suggested. There were 5 matches, which includes this thread:
-----------
1. November 2001, I asked Pat if pectel requires serial line drivers in it's data cable.

2. Unrelated. Blowdog asked about pectel mapping etc. I reply on thread, making no reference whatsoever to pectel.

3. November 2002
I answered a question about pectel asked by Adam M.

4. October 2002
Again, I answered a question from Adam.

5. This thread.
-----------

Okay, Carlos, so what, exactly, is your point?

Moray

MorayMackenzie
1st July 2003, 16:03
I would still like to what I have done to elicit Paul's "Sometimes I wonder how us plebs manage to cope without a Pectel T6" comment.

[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 01 July 2003).]

Pblamire
1st July 2003, 22:10
Moray,

Because the way the Pectel name gets bandied about, it would appear to the casual observer that you can't do without anything less.

It also seems just a tiny bit elitist, and if you don't agree, maybe your part of the elite!

An ECU that costs more than my car? Or more than any single part of my car and it's new expensive aftermarket 'stuff'.

I think that in future that whereever the T6 is mentioned, we should have a 'Blue Peter' alternative for us with either factory ECUs or mere Motec M48s and the like.

Paul

CarlosH
2nd July 2003, 03:24
Moray, it was just a joke http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/wink.gif ..... If I had the chance to get one, I think it would definetly be worth it.

BUT after trying a MODENA gear box (straight cut gears) ..... I know what I will be saving for http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Carlos H.

MorayMackenzie
2nd July 2003, 10:29
Paul,

"Because the way the Pectel name gets bandied about, it would appear to the casual observer that you can't do without anything less."

I disagree. When the pectel has been mentioned in the past it has been in the context of being an expensive option that may be worthwhile in certain cases. It has never been bandied around as a viable everymans alternative to an Ecutek, "Scoobyecu?", Link etc on every car.

"It also seems just a tiny bit elitist, and if you don't agree, maybe your part of the elite!"

Why? It's a expensive unit, but so is the M800 that Bob mentioned above. So why are you branding the pectel as "elitist" but it's fine to talk about a MoTeC M800, which is in the same price bracket, in exactly the same context? This brings me back to asking why you took issue with my reply to Bob's post?

"An ECU that costs more than my car? Or more than any single part of my car and it's new expensive aftermarket 'stuff'."

What has this got to do with it? Is it reasonable that anyone with a cheaper car than yours brands you as elitist as you spent twice as much on it? Why do you need a turbocharged car anyway? You must be an elitist! http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

"I think that in future that whereever the T6 is mentioned, we should have a 'Blue Peter' alternative for us with either factory ECUs or mere Motec M48s and the like."

Again, whenever the pectel has been mentioned in the context of ECU comparison, it has always been made clear, certainly if I have posted in such contexts, that the pectel and motec M800 units are generally speaking overkill in most cases. When people email me asking about such things, I very rarely recommend a pectel.

I like to tinker with my car, it's one of my favourite hobbies. I have been tinkering with scoobies for six years or so now and over that time I have made mistakes, several bad decisions and been ripped off on several occasions.

I have personal expirience in using racelogic daughterboard based JECS ECU ROM remaps, two MoTeC M48 Pro's and a Pectel T6 in my car.

I hope that I can share my expirience with others who ask for advice on such subjects without being branded as an elitist. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Moray

Andy.F
2nd July 2003, 15:10
Moray

Correct me if I am wrong but I see two of the major advantages of the Pectel as being its closed loop WB based fueling and advanced knock control.
I was wondering how you find the accuracy of AFR control at WOT ? Is there a limit to how much offset from base map the injector pulse can be given ? ie in event of sensor misread.
Also can you select the level acceptable engine noise (or knock) to vary by RPM and load ?

Are there any other features that you consider may make this unit particularly suitable for a Subaru ?

cheers

Andy (getting sucked into the downward spiral of 'serious' upgrades http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/biggrin.gif)

Pblamire
2nd July 2003, 15:14
Moray,

Try looking from the outside in, it's somewhat different.

Perhaps i should edit my post to include a smiley disclaimer?

paul

MorayMackenzie
2nd July 2003, 16:41
Andy,

Knock control: Pat and I had a quick look at the knock control system on the pectel, but it seems you really require two knock sensors (one on a cylinder for knock, one for background noise level reference http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif ) and appropriate software filters setup correctly. The setup parameters for the knock control are not obvious enough to justify us playing around before a good chat about them with the right guys at pectel, so we left it alone.

Wideband Lambda: The closed loop wideband system also has a comprehensive set of parameters for setup, but they are all pretty obvious and I have been using it since we fitted the unit. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/smile.gif
I am running closed loop lambda at all times (except idle), so that's whilst on boost too. My lambda correction limits are set to +/- 10% at the moment.

I have remapped my on boost fueling using the datalogs. I log the lambda correction multiplier, which points to how much correction to apply to the zones I am looking at, which is nice. Over time, I've seen the dataloged lambda correction values drop to less than 1% in much of the boosted areas, which means its pretty close to my AFR targets.

As to mapping fuel for cruise, you switch it into automap mode and it sits there patiently waiting for you to hold the engine in a stable state within a zone for a certain time, and when this occurs it adjusts the fuelling automatically based on lambda correction.

Moray

MorayMackenzie
2nd July 2003, 16:50
Paul,

You either mean it or you don't. No point editing anything.

You might feel that I have been "eliteist" with regards to the pectel. It was not my intention to be. I reviewed my posts on the subject when Carlos made his suggestion, and I failed to spot anything elitist on my part. But hey, I would say that anyway. http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Moray