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Thread: 27mm swaybars

  1. #1
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    27mm swaybars

    Hi i have a type-r with whitline suspension 3way and whitline goodys on the car front and back now i really want to put on some 27mm swaybars on the car.
    its a 440hp 6speed with dccd but on track as you now its gives a little understeer.
    Now i was thinking of using a 27mm at the front and 24mm on the back to counter this or is it beter to just put in a 27mm on the back to.
    And deal with the understeer my self or just by setting the dccd on a other setting as i sometme do.

  2. #2
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    You would not want to put a 27 on the front and 24 on the back to cure understeer, that would make it worse.
    You want to soften the end that lacks grip.
    Maybe adjustable 24s with the front soft and rear hard might be a place to start.

    Just my experience but I'd think twice about the 27mm ARBs even for track use.
    It does depend upon your spring rates of course, but if they are stiff enough to counteract roll, and properly damped, you might want to allow them to act as 4 independent corners rather than tie opposite sides together with a girder.
    I have 11 and 7 kg/mm springs and found that removing the 27mm arbs and going back to 22mm improved the handling and lap times, even with slicks on a dry track.

    You should be able to improve the understeer a lot with your 3-way damping anyway.
    It gets a bit complicated, and I'm definitely no expert, but if you have noticeable understeer when powering out of a corner try increasing the front rebound, and softening the slow compression in relation to the rear. The idea being to hold the front down for longer and increase front grip out of the corner.

    More educated advice and opinions would be most welcome I'm sure.

  3. #3
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    Ok i just bought the dampers from some one so i have to see what kind of spring are on them i thought bigger were also better.
    But i can try using the dampers to remove the understeer its only when i come out of cornes at higher speeds.
    I though with the bigger swaybar it will make the car stiffer and mutch easyer to drive in and out of corners because it will pull down the tyre better to the surface.
    Last edited by makkink; 6th February 2018 at 18:37.

  4. #4
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    I will give my normal disclaimer here.....I probably don't know what I'm talking about and therefore take no responsibility for what befalls you if you take my advice but:

    I think you have to separate grip from roll, they are distinctly different and improving one will often worsen the other, so it's a compromise.

    Softening the suspension, and in particular the anti-roll bars, affords more tyre grip. This is why we will often disconnect the anti roll bars completely and soften the damping in a wet race, but it does allow the sprung weight to 'roll' and upset the handling.

    Soften it too much and the weight transfer will let centrifugal force take over in a corner and tip the car over.
    Stiffen it too much and the weight transfer won't be enough to give the outer wheels grip and you'll just slide off.
    Either way you're not going to get round the corner at a decent speed!

    The holy grail is the softest setting with no roll............obviously this is impossible, but getting the compromise right is why we have experts in suspension set up!

    I think your idea of 'the stiffer the car the easier to handle' is totally wrong, no offence, the softer the car (suspension) the easier it is to handle....hence soft in the wet.

    Heavier ARBs will not improve your understeer out of corners. Heavy ARBs put more onus on the tyre/road grip, so if the front is already slipping it will slip more with a heavy ARB.

    Soften everything off as far as possible, then try a fast corner. You should have decent tyre grip but the car will lean like a drunk pig, that will limit your speed.
    Stiffen everything to the max and it won't lean so much, but front, rear, or both set of wheels will want to slide off the road, that will now limit your speed.
    Somewhere in between is the optimum, but only on a given day in given conditions!

    Good luck, resist the temptation to buy new stuff, experiment with what you've got.

    However if you really want a set of 27mm Whiteline adjustable arbs I'll happily sell you mine!

  5. #5
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    It depends whats causing the understeer, if the car is rolling too much and unloading the inside tyre then a stiffer front ARB will reduce understeer.

    27mm front ARB often works better than a 24mm front bar on circuit, because it supports the whole platform, which is front end dominated. Its when you get a bumpy venue that needs more individual wheel movement where strong ARB's negate the benefit.

    Drivers also respond to front end stiffness more than rear stiffness, so if you want to make the car more responsive the answer is often to stiffen up the front.

    The basic premise that to soften the front will reduce understeer doesn't always work in practice, its far more complicated than that. To get the best out of a stiffer front end often requires a change in driving style.

  6. #6
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    I will try to counter it with the new suspension and look how this goes.
    Thanks for al the input very helpful.

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