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CM-TOTB
15th April 2004, 17:30
reminder that the following are open rwyb days at elvington this summer, 1/4m head to head and top speed runs.
16th May
4th July
40 quid per car to compete, helmets must be worn this year, spectating 6 quid per adult on gate. all welcome.

sun 1st august for totb3, and possibly a sept date for a rwyb, to be confirmed.

31st may is scoobyshootout of course.
cheers
chris m

Old Trout
16th April 2004, 05:36
Hurray!!

:D :D :D :D

Simon_
18th April 2004, 09:05
Are they allowing passengers now?

Was a pain at Shootout last year that no passengers were aloud as mate wanted to film etc..

Simon

CM-TOTB
18th April 2004, 18:22
nope, fraid not, its hard enough getting insurance cover for the timed events now, won't allow passengers in cars i'm afraid.
no reason why you cant film using a camera mount if securely fixed or a bullet camera though
rgds

Simon_
18th April 2004, 20:29
no problem... not a pain pain just annoyance but the reason is valid so fair enough

T-uk
19th April 2004, 10:37
did not think you would need insurance if you had signs and ticket marked "entered at own risk" etc?.

I think that is what crail possibly do as they allow passengers on both drag and handling/drift course.

CM-TOTB
19th April 2004, 18:30
its a public event with spectating and the insurers will not allow public in the cars while competing now i'm afraid. different set up to trackdays.
rgds

fuz
22nd April 2004, 21:16
will be there on the 16th :D

Steven
2nd June 2004, 09:44
Chris, when are the next days at Melbourne?

Many thanks for yours and Trevors time on Monday, helped me towards solving a problem.

Cheers

Steven

CM-TOTB
2nd June 2004, 22:06
i have the dates for melbourne somewhere, will try a look out for them. no probs about monday, was bugging me as much as you mate!
rgds

Steven
3rd June 2004, 20:07
cheers chris

CM-TOTB
6th June 2004, 23:11
cant find the buggers, thought i had a mail listing them all for melbourne! sorry about that. there is a website tho for york dragway?
rgds

Steven
7th June 2004, 07:51
ahh yes, there is, cheers chris

CM-TOTB
28th June 2004, 22:33
reminder there is a rwyb again on the 4th at elvington, 1/4m and top speed, last event before totb3 there!
cheers
chris m

Scott Parker
1st July 2004, 19:29
I take it that its pay on the day for sunday???

Who else is going? smile.gif

Steven
1st July 2004, 21:05
yes its pay on the day.

scott, if i can get my gearbox back in then i will be there.

car has been off the road for 3 weeks again.

working like hell, and only chance off running will be if i can get the car back together tomorrow night.

Steven

Scott Parker
1st July 2004, 22:04
lol i know the feeling :D my car has been off the road for the last 2 weeks getting the gearbox rebuilt :rolleyes: Gearbox still is'nt in the car yet. Its turning up tomorrow apparently, then i've got to ram my new induction kit into the engine bay somehow, then battle the friday traffic to get to Swindon to see Bob to finish the mapping!

Seems like a tall order but i have a plan ;) and i will be trying 100%

Got my new Quaife front diff to try out on sunday ;)

Be good to see you
Scott

Steven
2nd July 2004, 08:32
yup

Steven
5th July 2004, 10:00
12.61 at 114 with a 1.8 60ft was best time again yesterday. had fun, but a bit disappointed as there is far more potential in the car.

was an absolute hoot 1st thing when it was pouring with rain, 12.9 being the best time i had then.

a couple of cars went pop yesterday, one being one of the skylines, which IIRC will be at TOTB3.

still think the 6 speed is crap!

Simon_
5th July 2004, 10:04
Steven,

Could you fit the 5speed for the day???

Simon

Paul@Zen
5th July 2004, 10:16
I don't think the 5speed would make it for the whole day!

I think higher RPM limit, some means of holding boost on gear changes and a means of building boost on the line are what's required. Just one extra change on thebox shouldn't mean paticualrly slow times.

Paul

Slooby
5th July 2004, 10:23
I'm thinking of sticking with the 5 speed and just running less hp and torque (somehow) Afterall it held together for a 12.3, and Steven got a 12.16 with a stock box, Andy even better....so if I cap the engines potential I should still see good times with power that the gearbox can handle

David_Wallis
5th July 2004, 10:25
12 secs isnt worth attempting to break a box IMHO at totb..

11s will be slow IMHO.. Unless it rains.

David

Steven
5th July 2004, 10:30
Simon, i think i would kill the 5 speed too quickly.

Paul i agree with gearchange point, but its the ratios that are crap. Cars with similar power real you in as you change from 4th to 5th.

The abuse the 6 speed seems to take is great, 7000rpm launchs, bounce of limiter in 1st until traction and then boom.

Now have Redline gearoil in, and the change felt so much better, i just dont like the overall feell of the gearchange, its a bit wooly compared to the nice notchy/solid feel of the 5 speed.

I tried flat gearchanges (without ecu adjustment) on my 3rd run. It certainly felt quick, and responded better 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th. That run wasnt timed, as apparently i jumped the start :mad:

I didnt try again, as the knock link was going mental on the changes :eek:

Still had a possible problem on the top speed run. Indicated 155mph held on limiter, which for whatever reason was 6800ish, gps saying 150, recorded speed of 133, with a strong headwind.

Nigel Fleetham also commented on the top speed readings being about 20mph down, he had indicated 185 but only 164mph. His speed has only ever been 7 to 8mph out at elvington and per gps.

Definately concetrating on the handling, as the car feels setup well on that front.

Steven

Simon_
5th July 2004, 10:35
Oh okay :(

Bit of a scrafice but hoped the box would have lasted the day..

Has anyone looked at bracing the box?

Does the STi box whcih seems to be lasting better have a stronger casing?

UK gearing in an STi case worth a try?

Simon

Steven
5th July 2004, 10:35
Tim, i personally feel that the timings of last year were optimistic compared with this year.

I honestly think a 12.3 last year would be around a 12.8/12.9.

I dont know what harvey got yesterday in his wrx, he ran just before i left, and was preparing to run again. The last i heard the commentator say was 13.5x. Harvey had just run 399bhp and 36oish torque at well lane.

My car currently feels as quick as the old one, but not much in it from a standing start, so i would guess i am running around 360bhp and 360ish torque.

Steven
5th July 2004, 10:49
I dont think the case of the sti is stronger, but stand to be corrected.

The effort involved in changing the 6speed, isnt worth it. Its a ball ache on mine tbh, and i know i would kill it.

The 5 speed i have, stood up well since it went in, but then i put 4.5litres of oil in it, the 6 speed has 5 quarts of redline in.

Playing with the ecu some more will allow flat changes, which should help.

TBH i am not that interested in the 1/4 anymore (last years fad i think) and would like to look at the handling side of things.

Steven

Paul@Zen
5th July 2004, 10:59
flat changes on the handling circuit may give gains too, so don't dismiss that drag raching technology just yet!

Paul

Steven
5th July 2004, 11:02
yeah i know Paul, going for more all round ability

Slooby
5th July 2004, 12:49
Originally posted by Steven:
I honestly think a 12.3 last year would be around a 12.8/12.9.I ran at S'pod a few weeks after Scooby shootout, had terrible problems with wheel spin and then jumping out of gear, but my 3 runs were in the low 13's and high 12's, so I'd be surprised if they were that much different this year...

Even so, haven't got a clue what to do gearbox wise :( Don't want to spend the money on a 6 speed if it's going to slow me down, I'm not entirlely convinced about the longevity of a 5 speed syncro kit, and a dog box is expensive plus I doubt I could drive with one :(

harvey
5th July 2004, 12:57
Cheers Steven: The WRX did 399bhp and 358lbs at Well Lane yesterday with a bit more to come. This was a reasonable result for a budget modding project. Up from 250bhp/260ft.lbs. at the previous rolling road day which had resulted in a best at Elvington on the last event of '03 of 13.98 @87mph. Speeds fluctuated 87-94 mph with the only 87 mph resulting in the quickest E.T. and 60 foot was 1.914. Top speeds were getting close to the red line at 135.5 to 137.4. My SPA Microprocessor was consistently under reading the given speeds by .3 and .4 mph.

I was expecting good things at Elvington despite the 15mph head wind. Did five runs.
13.57 2.056 105mph 140.4mph.
13.67 2.227 113mph 142mph (rev limit lifted)
13.53 2.152 109mph 145.3mph (rev limit lited)
13.55 2.144 110mph
13.72 2.232 109mph

Initially very disappointed. The car is far quicker in all areas and top speed was achieved halfway up the strip and then cruised to the speed trap to avoid the limiter and det.
Elvington timing gear was under reading the SPA by 2.5 mph approx. 145.3 Elvington = 147.9mph SPA when the car speedo was well past 160mph BTW.

For the next Elvington I will put 215 40 17 back on in place of the 205 50 16s in the hope that 60 foots are back down to a consistent 1.9 as before. I am fairly gentle on the box and my launches may not be the best.

My overall conclusion regards the timing and speeds at Elvington, which were formed some time ago were that figures from one event to another can vary but the figures for the specific event are consistent.

I believe the casing of the gearbox on the STi 6 is more rigid than other similar boxes that I have seen due to additional webs and braces It is not possible to transfer gears between five and six speed casings as I understand it but I may be corrected. Rally guys use the six speed casing with five dog gears.

I thought long and hard about a six speed for the STi Wagon to improve the 11.74 ET but concluded that the ratios were too low for good starts, why have four gear changes to the 1/4 when you have plenty power and the effect of more weight. I am still looking for a five speed alternative.

David_Wallis
5th July 2004, 13:09
my launches may not be the bestYour not kidding.. I didnt once hear you rev it before launching it..

was funny when the saxo was level though!

How is your spa measuring speed?

Steven
5th July 2004, 13:19
Agree they are consistent at each event, but comparing between events is harder.

Very strange re speed, as when i had the problem at SSO, the gps backed up what elvington was saying. Not this time though.

Steven
5th July 2004, 13:21
the staging lights suggested the saxo pipped harvey. it was certainly a little sleeper that one.

harvey
5th July 2004, 13:39
"Your not kidding.. I didnt once hear you rev it before launching it..

was funny when the saxo was level though!

How is your spa measuring speed? "

It is a stealth Wagon with a very quiet exhaust and anyway I was lulling the other guys into a sense of false security at the start. LOL. ;)
The termial speeds reflect the power I think but not the poor ETs. Hit higher top speeds half a mile earlier than before.

The Microprocessor counts the wheel revs and the circumference is measured accurately. 30 revs along a white line in Morrisons car park in the
middle of the night and an engineering 50m tape. Accurate enough to need recalibration a couple of times during the life of the tyre to account for wear.

Steven: I have a new and boxed rev limiter with full throtle shift facility. It is for twin coil DIS a la STi 6 and I think yours is the same. I won't need it this year so you can try it out if you want. If, having tried it you want to keep it 80.
The thing to check first would be how it coped with WOT gearshifts because depending on your ECU, it may pull out timing if there is any det. Just my consideration when I bought it. I am sure there will be no issues with the launch rev limits. e-mail me if you want it.

Steven
5th July 2004, 13:42
Cheers for the offer Harvey, but hopefully the motec should cope with it. I changed to an M800 recently.

It just needs mapping and setting up, and hopefully it should qork, if not i may take you up on your offer.

David_Wallis
5th July 2004, 14:19
Steven,

Have a look on the software for Gear Change Ignition Cut. (personally I would prefer fuel cut) unless it does as the msd and doesnt cut all cylinders at once..

Knowing motec it will probably cost more money to enable this option.

harvey
5th July 2004, 17:05
To avoid det I think sequential fuel cut is preferable. What does the M800 have?

Steven
5th July 2004, 19:48
think it is, but would have to give to david, pat, rob, paul or bobs knowledge.

Andy.F
5th July 2004, 20:10
It's fuel cut that will give you det, if you keep switching in/out of it you will run weak.
An ignition cut may well show on the knocklink but it is not actually det, just the backfire you get with the unburned fuel.

FWIW, the UK six speed has almost identical overall ratios to the Sti 5/6 type R gearbox (within 2 mph per gear)

How come Haldors car is so quick on the 6 speed ?
Is it all technique ?

Andy

callum ferguson
5th July 2004, 20:16
M800 manual mentions gear change ignition cut and not fuel cut except with reference to overrun.

Steven
5th July 2004, 20:29
Probably because its mapped ;) , and may have something to do with his 60ft times being around 1.5 seconds :eek:

Callum, you are correct, just looked at the software on my laptop and it is ignition cut.

The one run i did do some flat changes on it felt astonishingly quick compared to the others, and the gps was saying 109 as i went over the line (its usually about 5 to 10mph out on acceleration). Sadly this run wasnt timed, due to red light :(

stevieturbo
5th July 2004, 22:43
Who got 1.5s 60ft times ????????

Why do people think the 6 speed is so bad ???

I know a few people using one now, and they have nothing but praise for the shift quality, using just Castrol Syntrax. The ratios may not be ideal for some, but they arent that bad really. He was crossing the line on the limiter in 4th. It wasnt really worth changing to 5th, although he did try a few times. If a car had more power, and was expecting terminals in the 120+ region, then a change to 5th would be very worthwhile.

Most recently, at IOM, Neil's wrx ran very consistent low 12's, with a best of 12.17s @ 110mph . Best 60ft was 1.75s I think and they were consistently below 1.9s, and the track isnt that grippy. He is just using Goodyear F1's
As for gearbox strength, it cant be faulted. He did around 50 runs over the 2 days, and everything ran smoothly. ( and a few runs at SSO too, although it was his first time racing there )

Is there a 5 speed that will take that abuse, time and time again ?? Do you think any 5 speed ratios can offer much improved times over the 6 speed ???

David_Wallis
5th July 2004, 23:29
Sorry, I was kinda thinking more a combined ign and fuel cut..

its the bang that I dont like..

David

Steven
6th July 2004, 07:59
Some fair points there Stevie.

Halldor has had 1.5s 60ft's iirc

I dont like the ratios of the 1st 4 gears of the six speed, and i dont like the feel of the stick, its too sloppy. While in gear you can move it the width of the gate.

Dont think holding mine to the limiter would help, unless i upped the limiter.

I managed to get a 1.8 60ft, but that was it, all the rest above 1.9. Guess i have lost he knack this year.

Re strength of 6 speed, i think i now have another problem.

Whilst giving it a bit of boot this morning (it ran fine on sunday and yesterday), there was a clunk from the what sounded like the transmission, whilst accelerating in 4th.

It also hesitated badly, and now has a lot of transmission judder.

I really am going off this car very quickly...

harvey
6th July 2004, 18:27
Thanks for that Andy.
What is happening when you run into the rev limiter on the standard car? I assume the spark is cut, there is no banging, not on either of mine anyway but it shows up as mega det on the Link Management Unit.

On the gearing, what are peoples thoughts. I had thought until now that too low gearing was to be avoided with reasonable amounts of power because of tyre slip probably all the way to the gear change? Then there is the need for an extra gear change on a six speed over a five speed?

stevieturbo
6th July 2004, 20:12
Sounds like a dodgy box or linkage Steven. Anyone else Ive spoke to with a 6speed, says the change is very positive, and smooth. Def not sloppy.

If you have a wide spread of power and torque, then a smaller amount of gears can be effective. But I still think generally, more gears can offer better all round performance, especially on a laggy motor.

Steven
6th July 2004, 21:11
I think your right Stevie, my money is on the centre diff at the moment, as the car is doing all sorts of stupid things now.

David saw the movement available in the stick, and said his 6 speed was nothing like mine.

Harvey, believe the link ecus have a soft fuel cut, hence no banging. However, i stand to be corrected.

With regards to gearing, i have said that the 6 speed is very poor 1 to 4, what i havent said is that that is for the 1/4 mile and every day driving. I found myslef trying to change up from 6th about 5 times on the way home tonight, and that was from about 4000rpm. This is on a JDM though.

For the handling circuit i think the gearing will be very good.

Having justed had a 3.9 quaife diff built up, i need to find another 1:1 with a 3.9 front, but with better ratios, think i need a different box for me personally.

David_Wallis
6th July 2004, 22:23
well I have the part number for the 6spd forrester sti Box..

Will trade for bits :D

David

Slooby
6th July 2004, 23:07
Bits of what? ;)

Steven
7th July 2004, 07:02
I'll just beat it out of you.

I have some bits in the back of the car for you.

Richard.D
7th July 2004, 16:41
David,

Please give me the part number - I'm sure I can get a better price than you ;)

Steven - LOL at the change up from 6th, also a regular failing of mine at 200k's plus on a power run....

I love the JDM 6 speed for it's absolute strength and integrity......so far. Shift on mine is amazing with the STi short-shift kit fitted.

However, I do think I'm wasting my ej20's potential with such a short power band (I get back on the gas after a change at 5k9ish)....let alone my ej25. Forseter gearing would put the car into serious Porsche annoying territory above 200kmh as well as below :D

Richard

Steven
7th July 2004, 16:50
Richard, which JDM one do you have?

I suppose its ok, it just annoys me at the moment. Think i may have to get a quickshift.

Right, to find a forester gearbox

Boxing gloves

Check!

Wallis' address

Check!

Right, away i go


oh bugger, be amazed if car gets me there.

steven :D

Simon_
8th July 2004, 07:02
Originally posted by Steven:
Richard, which JDM one do you have?

I suppose its ok, it just annoys me at the moment. Think i may have to get a quickshift.

Right, to find a forester gearbox

Boxing gloves

Check!

Wallis' address

Check!

Right, away i go


oh bugger, be amazed if car gets me there.

steven :D ROTFLMAO!!

Richard.D
8th July 2004, 14:46
Steven,

I posted the code in the other thread somewhere. JDM with Suretrac front diff. While I had doubts initially, I can now confirm the Suretrac is there - long sweepers on hillclimbs see's the front and rear (STi v3 plated) diffs fighting over who drifts.....quite disconcerting the first time smile.gif I'll be using rear camber to balance this rearwards...hopefully.

Short shift is from Rallispec.com - expensive, but worth every penny.

Once you've beaten the forester code out of Wallis, let me have it too please, lol smile.gif

Richard